Comments on: No need to save millions - here’s a quicker way to financial independence http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/no-need-to-save-millions-heres-a-quicker-way-to-financial-independence.html Financial independence, frugality, self-sufficiency, ecology, capitalism, and voluntary simplicity Fri, 21 Nov 2008 22:38:45 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: LC http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/no-need-to-save-millions-heres-a-quicker-way-to-financial-independence.html#comment-2054 LC Thu, 11 Sep 2008 20:35:58 +0000 http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/no-need-to-save-millions-heres-a-quicker-way-to-financial-independence.html#comment-2054 adfecto - I think that's the point. You can easily work for 40 years and have tons of money when you retire, but why do that when you can retire earlier on less and enjoy freedom while you're younger? I personally can't think of what I would spend $165,000 per year on. My mortgage will be paid off and we have a middle class lifestyle with a nice vacation every year for $24k/year ($16k if we had no mortgage). adfecto - I think that’s the point. You can easily work for 40 years and have tons of money when you retire, but why do that when you can retire earlier on less and enjoy freedom while you’re younger? I personally can’t think of what I would spend $165,000 per year on. My mortgage will be paid off and we have a middle class lifestyle with a nice vacation every year for $24k/year ($16k if we had no mortgage).

]]> By: The Executioner http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/no-need-to-save-millions-heres-a-quicker-way-to-financial-independence.html#comment-672 The Executioner Fri, 07 Mar 2008 20:52:25 +0000 http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/no-need-to-save-millions-heres-a-quicker-way-to-financial-independence.html#comment-672 @ Adfecto - I can't speak for everyone here, but my goal is to stop working as soon as possible. You couldn't pay me ANY amount of money to work for 40 years of my life. If I find myself working for more than 20 years, I will consider myself a failure. Some people enjoy getting up and going to work every day; I do not. We only have a few short years to enjoy on this earth and I for one hope to live them as leisurely (and simply) as possible. This is a question of life choices, though. If your goal is to have a high disposable income after 40 years, then your plan sounds reasonable. @ Adfecto - I can’t speak for everyone here, but my goal is to stop working as soon as possible. You couldn’t pay me ANY amount of money to work for 40 years of my life. If I find myself working for more than 20 years, I will consider myself a failure. Some people enjoy getting up and going to work every day; I do not. We only have a few short years to enjoy on this earth and I for one hope to live them as leisurely (and simply) as possible.

This is a question of life choices, though. If your goal is to have a high disposable income after 40 years, then your plan sounds reasonable.

]]> By: Adfecto http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/no-need-to-save-millions-heres-a-quicker-way-to-financial-independence.html#comment-492 Adfecto Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:22:11 +0000 http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/no-need-to-save-millions-heres-a-quicker-way-to-financial-independence.html#comment-492 Why should people set their sights so low to only have $40-80k income? I am putting in 40 years and my goal is to walk away with $15,000,000 in net worth. That will be worth about $5 million in 2007 dollars. That should support indefinitely a initial income draw of about $165,000 (again 2007 dollars) before taxes and adjust upward with inflation from there. Why should people set their sights so low to only have $40-80k income? I am putting in 40 years and my goal is to walk away with $15,000,000 in net worth. That will be worth about $5 million in 2007 dollars. That should support indefinitely a initial income draw of about $165,000 (again 2007 dollars) before taxes and adjust upward with inflation from there.

]]> By: claire http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/no-need-to-save-millions-heres-a-quicker-way-to-financial-independence.html#comment-484 claire Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:43:38 +0000 http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/no-need-to-save-millions-heres-a-quicker-way-to-financial-independence.html#comment-484 Hi Jacob, Do you think you will ever buy property at all - or will you continue to rent? perhaps an idea for a post? I enjoy your blog. Claire Hi Jacob,

Do you think you will ever buy property at all - or will you continue to rent? perhaps an idea for a post?

I enjoy your blog.

Claire

]]> By: Jacob http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/no-need-to-save-millions-heres-a-quicker-way-to-financial-independence.html#comment-478 Jacob Thu, 21 Feb 2008 01:23:56 +0000 http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/no-need-to-save-millions-heres-a-quicker-way-to-financial-independence.html#comment-478 @claire - The operational budget only lists the bare bones. We don't budget for anything else since most are one time or rare expenses and easily covered by savings (just means that a little less goes into investments that month). I don't take vacations. I go to enough conferences to want to stay at home when I get time off. The kind of vacations I'm interested in doesn't cost much money. I want to do an AT thru-hike or some long distance cycling. I've also looked into traveling on a cargo ship e.g. doing something out of the ordinary for vacations. I positively hate resorts. I had to go to Hawaii for a conference once. This was one of those "never leave the hotel grounds because there's nothing else within a 20 mile radius deals but you can work out in the fitness room, spa, souvenir shopping, swim with the dolphins, visit our 15 restaurants, see the hula dancers. Boring! I only left my hotel room a couple of times to go to the beach. DW occasionally flies out to her family (while I stay home with the dog). We eat out maybe once a year. I hate eating out (can't put the feet up, portion sizes too small, no spices, having to deal with other people to get my food and sit next to other families (I love drive-in) ). DW would like to eat out more. I can count on my fingers the number of times I have been to a bar in my life. My idea of a good time is being at home with friends, drinking cheap swill and hideously expensive whisky (Ardberg), and doing stupid human tricks or watching a movie. Not sitting in a smoke filled room shouting to get heard and paying $7 for drinks. Just never liked it. My clothes is 1/3 hand-me-down/overs (shirts, sweaters), 1/3 thrift (overcoats, pants) and 1/3 new (jackets, shoes, shirts, suits, socks, underwear). It is usually worn until it reaches terminal failure in obvious spots (less obvious spots get patched). DW gives me a buzz cut every other month (with my thinning hair I have accepted the inevitable - I used to have hippie shoulder length hair for a while that just needed a cross cut with a pair of scissors). DW does go to a hairdresser and never seems to be happy with the results. My major ongoing entertainment expense is hockey. I pay $100 a year (in advance) for unlimited pickup (rather than $7/play). Also I pay $100 in league fees three times a year. On top of that there's replacement blades, new wheels, etc. This probably comes around to $500 a year total (fees included). I still work. Just before I was planning on pulling the plug, I was offered a research gig here in CA. Once that is up (it's a limited term position) or DW gets a job elsewhere, I'll stop my W-2 work (unless someone offers me a job at an investment company, a start-up, a non-profit org, or something equally exciting). @ Thrifty Canadian - I have frequently wondered where the official(?) $250k/child estimate originates. Otherwise I agree with the numbers. If I had kids I would make it clear from an early point that if they wanted to go to college that they better study hard enough to get scholarships or otherwise pay their own fare e.g. probably living at home while attending the nearest community/state college/university. @claire - The operational budget only lists the bare bones. We don’t budget for anything else since most are one time or rare expenses and easily covered by savings (just means that a little less goes into investments that month). I don’t take vacations. I go to enough conferences to want to stay at home when I get time off. The kind of vacations I’m interested in doesn’t cost much money. I want to do an AT thru-hike or some long distance cycling. I’ve also looked into traveling on a cargo ship e.g. doing something out of the ordinary for vacations. I positively hate resorts. I had to go to Hawaii for a conference once. This was one of those “never leave the hotel grounds because there’s nothing else within a 20 mile radius deals but you can work out in the fitness room, spa, souvenir shopping, swim with the dolphins, visit our 15 restaurants, see the hula dancers. Boring! I only left my hotel room a couple of times to go to the beach. DW occasionally flies out to her family (while I stay home with the dog). We eat out maybe once a year. I hate eating out (can’t put the feet up, portion sizes too small, no spices, having to deal with other people to get my food and sit next to other families (I love drive-in) ). DW would like to eat out more. I can count on my fingers the number of times I have been to a bar in my life. My idea of a good time is being at home with friends, drinking cheap swill and hideously expensive whisky (Ardberg), and doing stupid human tricks or watching a movie. Not sitting in a smoke filled room shouting to get heard and paying $7 for drinks. Just never liked it. My clothes is 1/3 hand-me-down/overs (shirts, sweaters), 1/3 thrift (overcoats, pants) and 1/3 new (jackets, shoes, shirts, suits, socks, underwear). It is usually worn until it reaches terminal failure in obvious spots (less obvious spots get patched). DW gives me a buzz cut every other month (with my thinning hair I have accepted the inevitable - I used to have hippie shoulder length hair for a while that just needed a cross cut with a pair of scissors). DW does go to a hairdresser and never seems to be happy with the results. My major ongoing entertainment expense is hockey. I pay $100 a year (in advance) for unlimited pickup (rather than $7/play). Also I pay $100 in league fees three times a year. On top of that there’s replacement blades, new wheels, etc. This probably comes around to $500 a year total (fees included). I still work. Just before I was planning on pulling the plug, I was offered a research gig here in CA. Once that is up (it’s a limited term position) or DW gets a job elsewhere, I’ll stop my W-2 work (unless someone offers me a job at an investment company, a start-up, a non-profit org, or something equally exciting).

@ Thrifty Canadian - I have frequently wondered where the official(?) $250k/child estimate originates. Otherwise I agree with the numbers. If I had kids I would make it clear from an early point that if they wanted to go to college that they better study hard enough to get scholarships or otherwise pay their own fare e.g. probably living at home while attending the nearest community/state college/university.

]]> By: Thrifty Canadian http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/no-need-to-save-millions-heres-a-quicker-way-to-financial-independence.html#comment-476 Thrifty Canadian Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:49:19 +0000 http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/no-need-to-save-millions-heres-a-quicker-way-to-financial-independence.html#comment-476 @Steve- it's totally possible to raise a kid very cheaply; I've noticed the kids in India and Africa do grow up normal provided clean water, health care etc. I think it's also possible to live in a rental basement while having 3 or 4 or more kids and actually be paid by government to raise your kids. After all, Canada needs new labor force and one earns the benefit to supply the future labor force. In this case the expense of raising kids is negative. I personally choose to stay balanced. I own (or my mortgage/bank owns) a modest town house since I'd like to have bigger space for kid as well as a backyard. In a bare bone situation I calculated the only cost would be diaper and very limited clothes bought from thrift store. You can definitely have kids for less than $100 a month. (that's before s/he enters college.) @Steve- it’s totally possible to raise a kid very cheaply; I’ve noticed the kids in India and Africa do grow up normal provided clean water, health care etc.

I think it’s also possible to live in a rental basement while having 3 or 4 or more kids and actually be paid by government to raise your kids. After all, Canada needs new labor force and one earns the benefit to supply the future labor force. In this case the expense of raising kids is negative.

I personally choose to stay balanced. I own (or my mortgage/bank owns) a modest town house since I’d like to have bigger space for kid as well as a backyard.

In a bare bone situation I calculated the only cost would be diaper and very limited clothes bought from thrift store. You can definitely have kids for less than $100 a month. (that’s before s/he enters college.)

]]> By: her every cent counts http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/no-need-to-save-millions-heres-a-quicker-way-to-financial-independence.html#comment-462 her every cent counts Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:25:18 +0000 http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/no-need-to-save-millions-heres-a-quicker-way-to-financial-independence.html#comment-462 I agree that it's not terrible to go by what's cheaper each week in the market for food choices. I just happen to be very picky and go with my specific hunger when picking what to eat. Some days I really want a certain spice or flavor, and I won't really want to eat otherwise. I figure spending money on food is the most important investment of all, since you are what you eat. I agree that it’s not terrible to go by what’s cheaper each week in the market for food choices. I just happen to be very picky and go with my specific hunger when picking what to eat. Some days I really want a certain spice or flavor, and I won’t really want to eat otherwise. I figure spending money on food is the most important investment of all, since you are what you eat.

]]> By: Steve Austin http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/no-need-to-save-millions-heres-a-quicker-way-to-financial-independence.html#comment-456 Steve Austin Tue, 19 Feb 2008 19:21:43 +0000 http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/no-need-to-save-millions-heres-a-quicker-way-to-financial-independence.html#comment-456 Thrift Canada, thanks for your per child cost estimate. Of course, if you weren't working, your child day care expense would go down and your own joy with child would go up, eh? If you stayed home, do you think you could lower your monthly additional cost per child to around $600? (Or $300 / month split across two parents?) Thrift Canada, thanks for your per child cost estimate. Of course, if you weren’t working, your child day care expense would go down and your own joy with child would go up, eh? If you stayed home, do you think you could lower your monthly additional cost per child to around $600? (Or $300 / month split across two parents?)

]]> By: claire http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/no-need-to-save-millions-heres-a-quicker-way-to-financial-independence.html#comment-455 claire Tue, 19 Feb 2008 19:07:10 +0000 http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/no-need-to-save-millions-heres-a-quicker-way-to-financial-independence.html#comment-455 Hi Jacob Thanks for the info. It seems like a pretty bare bones sort of living - do you take vacations or have any sort of expenses for dining out or going to bars? what about clothes or hairdressers or dentist etc? Do you still work or do you live of investment income? thanks Claire Hi Jacob

Thanks for the info. It seems like a pretty bare bones sort of living - do you take vacations or have any sort of expenses for dining out or going to bars? what about clothes or hairdressers or dentist etc? Do you still work or do you live of investment income?

thanks

Claire

]]> By: Paddy Wallbouncer http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/no-need-to-save-millions-heres-a-quicker-way-to-financial-independence.html#comment-454 Paddy Wallbouncer Tue, 19 Feb 2008 18:41:20 +0000 http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/no-need-to-save-millions-heres-a-quicker-way-to-financial-independence.html#comment-454 Ha! Great Website. You echo my thoughts exactly about money and how to conserve it. Very good stuff. There is something to our consumer society that makes it economically strong, but it might carry some fundamental social problems too -three letters NIU. A few years ago I came up with 1 million to give me one hundred dollars a day. Your model seems to be more up to date. Where did I get the idea of $100/day? I bought a motorcycle in England and rode it across Europe for six months on about $100 a day before coming back home to the States. When I got back I rode a bicycle across Northern Illinois on about $40/day (that includes the eqwuipment and food!) More on that at GITride.com The idea of conserving and saving instead of spending goes against the grain of American consumerism, but the lifestyle you are supporting seems to be, no *is* the right thing to do. I'm RSS'ing this one I've retired twice already, I am hoping the third one sticks! Ha! Great Website. You echo my thoughts exactly about money and how to conserve it. Very good stuff. There is something to our consumer society that makes it economically strong, but it might carry some fundamental social problems too -three letters NIU.

A few years ago I came up with 1 million to give me one hundred dollars a day. Your model seems to be more up to date. Where did I get the idea of $100/day? I bought a motorcycle in England and rode it across Europe for six months on about $100 a day before coming back home to the States. When I got back I rode a bicycle across Northern Illinois on about $40/day (that includes the eqwuipment and food!) More on that at GITride.com

The idea of conserving and saving instead of spending goes against the grain of American consumerism, but the lifestyle you are supporting seems to be, no *is* the right thing to do. I’m RSS’ing this one

I’ve retired twice already, I am hoping the third one sticks!

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