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	<title>Comments on: Programmers, ultra-marathons, and voluntary simplicity</title>
	<atom:link href="http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/programmers-ultra-marathons-and-voluntary-simplicity.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/programmers-ultra-marathons-and-voluntary-simplicity.html</link>
	<description>Financial independence, frugality, self-sufficiency, ecology, capitalism, and voluntary simplicity</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 22:26:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: daddygutz</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/programmers-ultra-marathons-and-voluntary-simplicity.html#comment-1378</link>
		<dc:creator>daddygutz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jun 2008 23:57:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/programmers-ultra-marathons-and-voluntary-simplicity.html#comment-1378</guid>
		<description>As a fellow marathoner and programmer, I couldn't agree with this blog more! I too feel like you that running just allows me to disconnect from the computerized world and be free. In a way, I view extreme retirement as the same way. Thanks for this blog!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a fellow marathoner and programmer, I couldn&#8217;t agree with this blog more! I too feel like you that running just allows me to disconnect from the computerized world and be free. In a way, I view extreme retirement as the same way. Thanks for this blog!</p>
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		<title>By: cait</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/programmers-ultra-marathons-and-voluntary-simplicity.html#comment-652</link>
		<dc:creator>cait</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:23:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/programmers-ultra-marathons-and-voluntary-simplicity.html#comment-652</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the comments!
And all hail voluntary simplicity! Right on!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the comments!<br />
And all hail voluntary simplicity! Right on!</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Austin</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/programmers-ultra-marathons-and-voluntary-simplicity.html#comment-609</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Austin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 15:57:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/programmers-ultra-marathons-and-voluntary-simplicity.html#comment-609</guid>
		<description>"Is the inability to value one’s time (rather than hyper-accumulating Things) simply an inability to accept one’s inevitable departure from this world? Do people who have an acquisitive mentality towards life have an inherent denial of death, and thus seek to “escape” into their goods, which are for all intents and purposes replacements for “immortality”"

Deep, yes, but bang-on.  Brilliant, really.  I think what you say has always rung true for me, but I've never really had it laid out for me like that.  I want to spend my final day not horizontal but vertical, trying to hike my trusty cane up a local mountain.  ;-\</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Is the inability to value one’s time (rather than hyper-accumulating Things) simply an inability to accept one’s inevitable departure from this world? Do people who have an acquisitive mentality towards life have an inherent denial of death, and thus seek to “escape” into their goods, which are for all intents and purposes replacements for “immortality”&#8221;</p>
<p>Deep, yes, but bang-on.  Brilliant, really.  I think what you say has always rung true for me, but I&#8217;ve never really had it laid out for me like that.  I want to spend my final day not horizontal but vertical, trying to hike my trusty cane up a local mountain.  ;-\</p>
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		<title>By: Hannah</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/programmers-ultra-marathons-and-voluntary-simplicity.html#comment-606</link>
		<dc:creator>Hannah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 07:11:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/programmers-ultra-marathons-and-voluntary-simplicity.html#comment-606</guid>
		<description>"I don’t want to spend most of my life in pursuit of things."
Bloody amen to that. Seriously people, it's not like there's 15 more lifetimes ahead of us, unless you believe in reincarnation (if you do, it's called "wishful thinking" ;) )

I really, really don't understand people who prioritize THINGS above TIME. This is inherently self-degrading. My free time (leisure time, time to dream, time to create, time to relax, time to appreciate art, time to quietly reflect, time to write, hell, time to just kill) will ALWAYS come before THINGS (consumer goods, material goods, "wants", "playthings"  etc.) Now, I understand that people have different priorities and values... we're all different, and that's what makes us interesting, I suppose. But on some existential level... I have to wonder: Is the inability to value one's time (rather than hyper-accumulating Things) simply an inability to accept one's inevitable departure from this world? Do people who have an acquisitive mentality towards life have an inherent denial of death, and thus seek to "escape" into their goods, which are for all intents and purposes replacements for "immortality" (objects do not "die" after all, although they do depreciate! ;) )

I know, heavy stuff, but the question begs to be asked. As for me, I accepted in inevitabiliy of my death a long time ago, and I want to fill my life with TIME, not Things. FI is the first step in claiming complete ownership of one's Time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I don’t want to spend most of my life in pursuit of things.&#8221;<br />
Bloody amen to that. Seriously people, it&#8217;s not like there&#8217;s 15 more lifetimes ahead of us, unless you believe in reincarnation (if you do, it&#8217;s called &#8220;wishful thinking&#8221; <img src='http://earlyretirementextreme.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> )</p>
<p>I really, really don&#8217;t understand people who prioritize THINGS above TIME. This is inherently self-degrading. My free time (leisure time, time to dream, time to create, time to relax, time to appreciate art, time to quietly reflect, time to write, hell, time to just kill) will ALWAYS come before THINGS (consumer goods, material goods, &#8220;wants&#8221;, &#8220;playthings&#8221;  etc.) Now, I understand that people have different priorities and values&#8230; we&#8217;re all different, and that&#8217;s what makes us interesting, I suppose. But on some existential level&#8230; I have to wonder: Is the inability to value one&#8217;s time (rather than hyper-accumulating Things) simply an inability to accept one&#8217;s inevitable departure from this world? Do people who have an acquisitive mentality towards life have an inherent denial of death, and thus seek to &#8220;escape&#8221; into their goods, which are for all intents and purposes replacements for &#8220;immortality&#8221; (objects do not &#8220;die&#8221; after all, although they do depreciate! <img src='http://earlyretirementextreme.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> )</p>
<p>I know, heavy stuff, but the question begs to be asked. As for me, I accepted in inevitabiliy of my death a long time ago, and I want to fill my life with TIME, not Things. FI is the first step in claiming complete ownership of one&#8217;s Time.</p>
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		<title>By: kdays</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/programmers-ultra-marathons-and-voluntary-simplicity.html#comment-588</link>
		<dc:creator>kdays</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 06:29:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/programmers-ultra-marathons-and-voluntary-simplicity.html#comment-588</guid>
		<description>It's fascinating to look at various patterns.  I must admit I've never looked into this one so it was a great read.

This post was included in the &lt;a href="http://www.kdays.com/2008/02/28/running-blog-carnival-issue-2008-05/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Running Blog Carnival #2008-05&lt;/a&gt; this week.

Cheers :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s fascinating to look at various patterns.  I must admit I&#8217;ve never looked into this one so it was a great read.</p>
<p>This post was included in the <a href="http://www.kdays.com/2008/02/28/running-blog-carnival-issue-2008-05/" rel="nofollow">Running Blog Carnival #2008-05</a> this week.</p>
<p>Cheers <img src='http://earlyretirementextreme.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Jacob</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/programmers-ultra-marathons-and-voluntary-simplicity.html#comment-496</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 07:13:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/programmers-ultra-marathons-and-voluntary-simplicity.html#comment-496</guid>
		<description>@ dollarfrugal - A few weeks ago, I asked DW why we don't just move into one of the motels since they would actually be comparable to our rent. She didn't like that. I find most hotel rooms to be excellent in terms of how they optimize space. Everything just fits together and there's nothing wasted. Lately I've been thinking about living in an RV or a boat.

@adfecto - Well, we're completely opposite. I want my "house"/shelter to be as small as possible, and since I only live once, I don't want to spend most of my life in pursuit of things. I don't like vehicles I can't carry, putting three letters after my name wasn't really all that cool (I'm Dr. on my credit card statement and airline tickets, but that's it, my diploma is in my safe, not on my wall). I have been all over the globe, okay, technologically advanced countries only, and they're mostly the same. I'd like to see some of the southern hemisphere though. I'm more of a participant than a spectator, and I'm also more of a DIY guy than a consumer - I built my own amp (20W stereo class B) which was kinda neat. And if I ever have children I'm not going give give them anything but a sense of work ethics and a dose of skepticism.  

@randall - On bad days I would say that my vocation is similar. It is a treadmill and it is about doing the same thing in slightly different ways indeed. I suspect it is symptomatic of a society where all progress is quantified. 

@thrifty canadian - I had to google "the lattice work", but yes. I think this is really what I'm drawn to now. If one goes through a standard education, a lot of what is initially taught is technical skills. One can basically say that a bachelor's degree teaches the "how". A master's degree teaches the "what". A PhD supposedly teaches the "why". And I think I got that. And maybe I got that maybe just a little bit too much, because in my research I have always been more interested in seeing the larger connections and deriving analogies than what is generally rewarded in a career like mine. Investing seems to be different though. Here lateral thinking can be highly useful. 
I am sorely tempted to get Munger's book now. I probably will. 

@scott - I've been reading your blog for almost a year now actually. It actually inspired me to substitute the hiking boots and the water bottle with a pair of running shoes and a camelbak. For me .. after going through grad school almost physically inactive, I picked up power endurance as a way to let out steam but also to get the mind-body connection back. I think many scientists think of their body merely as a vehicle that transports their brains around. I was getting to be like that. For me getting bleeding blisters from the workouts actually made me feel alive again. Endurance runs have a similar feel. Maybe when the brain becomes something that merely sits on top of the body and goes along for the ride it balances things out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ dollarfrugal - A few weeks ago, I asked DW why we don&#8217;t just move into one of the motels since they would actually be comparable to our rent. She didn&#8217;t like that. I find most hotel rooms to be excellent in terms of how they optimize space. Everything just fits together and there&#8217;s nothing wasted. Lately I&#8217;ve been thinking about living in an RV or a boat.</p>
<p>@adfecto - Well, we&#8217;re completely opposite. I want my &#8220;house&#8221;/shelter to be as small as possible, and since I only live once, I don&#8217;t want to spend most of my life in pursuit of things. I don&#8217;t like vehicles I can&#8217;t carry, putting three letters after my name wasn&#8217;t really all that cool (I&#8217;m Dr. on my credit card statement and airline tickets, but that&#8217;s it, my diploma is in my safe, not on my wall). I have been all over the globe, okay, technologically advanced countries only, and they&#8217;re mostly the same. I&#8217;d like to see some of the southern hemisphere though. I&#8217;m more of a participant than a spectator, and I&#8217;m also more of a DIY guy than a consumer - I built my own amp (20W stereo class B) which was kinda neat. And if I ever have children I&#8217;m not going give give them anything but a sense of work ethics and a dose of skepticism.  </p>
<p>@randall - On bad days I would say that my vocation is similar. It is a treadmill and it is about doing the same thing in slightly different ways indeed. I suspect it is symptomatic of a society where all progress is quantified. </p>
<p>@thrifty canadian - I had to google &#8220;the lattice work&#8221;, but yes. I think this is really what I&#8217;m drawn to now. If one goes through a standard education, a lot of what is initially taught is technical skills. One can basically say that a bachelor&#8217;s degree teaches the &#8220;how&#8221;. A master&#8217;s degree teaches the &#8220;what&#8221;. A PhD supposedly teaches the &#8220;why&#8221;. And I think I got that. And maybe I got that maybe just a little bit too much, because in my research I have always been more interested in seeing the larger connections and deriving analogies than what is generally rewarded in a career like mine. Investing seems to be different though. Here lateral thinking can be highly useful.<br />
I am sorely tempted to get Munger&#8217;s book now. I probably will. </p>
<p>@scott - I&#8217;ve been reading your blog for almost a year now actually. It actually inspired me to substitute the hiking boots and the water bottle with a pair of running shoes and a camelbak. For me .. after going through grad school almost physically inactive, I picked up power endurance as a way to let out steam but also to get the mind-body connection back. I think many scientists think of their body merely as a vehicle that transports their brains around. I was getting to be like that. For me getting bleeding blisters from the workouts actually made me feel alive again. Endurance runs have a similar feel. Maybe when the brain becomes something that merely sits on top of the body and goes along for the ride it balances things out.</p>
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		<title>By: ScottD</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/programmers-ultra-marathons-and-voluntary-simplicity.html#comment-495</link>
		<dc:creator>ScottD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 20:35:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/programmers-ultra-marathons-and-voluntary-simplicity.html#comment-495</guid>
		<description>I've spent many a long run pondering why I meet so many PhD's and technology people in ultras. For some, they tell me it is similar to what you are expressing - the ability to fully commit yourself to a project, but let your mind wander freely within that project. For me, it's a strong connection with nature that I seem to miss in my day-to-day work, but together provides a wonderful sense of balance. I'm not sure if I would appreciate nature if I got to run all day long every day, and I enjoy work more knowing it's not all about work.

I'm a big fan of the simple life too, but am an admitted full-blown capitalist. I tried the big car, big house thing, but as many of us learn, materialism is fleeting in its ability to fulfill the soul. But I do enjoy creating technologies that move industries, create jobs, and make deserving employees wealthy. That wealth creates choice, whether it is for a simple life or not, and that is powerful. 

Thanks for the link...keep up the great blog!

SD</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve spent many a long run pondering why I meet so many PhD&#8217;s and technology people in ultras. For some, they tell me it is similar to what you are expressing - the ability to fully commit yourself to a project, but let your mind wander freely within that project. For me, it&#8217;s a strong connection with nature that I seem to miss in my day-to-day work, but together provides a wonderful sense of balance. I&#8217;m not sure if I would appreciate nature if I got to run all day long every day, and I enjoy work more knowing it&#8217;s not all about work.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a big fan of the simple life too, but am an admitted full-blown capitalist. I tried the big car, big house thing, but as many of us learn, materialism is fleeting in its ability to fulfill the soul. But I do enjoy creating technologies that move industries, create jobs, and make deserving employees wealthy. That wealth creates choice, whether it is for a simple life or not, and that is powerful. </p>
<p>Thanks for the link&#8230;keep up the great blog!</p>
<p>SD</p>
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		<title>By: Thrifty Canadian</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/programmers-ultra-marathons-and-voluntary-simplicity.html#comment-494</link>
		<dc:creator>Thrifty Canadian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:33:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/programmers-ultra-marathons-and-voluntary-simplicity.html#comment-494</guid>
		<description>So Jacob you're doing the same stuff that Charlie Munger has been doing for his whole life - the latticework of worldly wisdom? It would be interesting to see you posting more on that front.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So Jacob you&#8217;re doing the same stuff that Charlie Munger has been doing for his whole life - the latticework of worldly wisdom? It would be interesting to see you posting more on that front.</p>
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		<title>By: Randall at CreditWithdrawal</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/programmers-ultra-marathons-and-voluntary-simplicity.html#comment-493</link>
		<dc:creator>Randall at CreditWithdrawal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:49:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/programmers-ultra-marathons-and-voluntary-simplicity.html#comment-493</guid>
		<description>As a programmer myself, I couldn't agree more. I'm getting tired of the same monotonous treadmill of 'learn the new tech, to create the same-old applications'. It's kind of a mental prison after awhile.

I've often though about getting out and figuring a way to live cheaper. It hasn't happened yet, but that doesn't mean it won't soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a programmer myself, I couldn&#8217;t agree more. I&#8217;m getting tired of the same monotonous treadmill of &#8216;learn the new tech, to create the same-old applications&#8217;. It&#8217;s kind of a mental prison after awhile.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve often though about getting out and figuring a way to live cheaper. It hasn&#8217;t happened yet, but that doesn&#8217;t mean it won&#8217;t soon.</p>
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		<title>By: Adfecto</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/programmers-ultra-marathons-and-voluntary-simplicity.html#comment-491</link>
		<dc:creator>Adfecto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:59:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/02/programmers-ultra-marathons-and-voluntary-simplicity.html#comment-491</guid>
		<description>I'm fine with 40 years of 40+ hour weeks to have wealth broad enough to support a lifestyle that includes McMansions, several luxury cars, a degree that adds a title to my name, fancy restaurant meals, travel all over the globe, season tickets to the theater and sporting events, and plenty of gadgets, toys, and widgets.  I will also provide the resources for my children to have every opportunity to achieve the same level of material success.  For me, it is worth the effort to achieve that life.  You are free to enjoy your squalor but I couldn't settle for that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m fine with 40 years of 40+ hour weeks to have wealth broad enough to support a lifestyle that includes McMansions, several luxury cars, a degree that adds a title to my name, fancy restaurant meals, travel all over the globe, season tickets to the theater and sporting events, and plenty of gadgets, toys, and widgets.  I will also provide the resources for my children to have every opportunity to achieve the same level of material success.  For me, it is worth the effort to achieve that life.  You are free to enjoy your squalor but I couldn&#8217;t settle for that.</p>
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