Comments on: Tap water

By: Jacob

Jacob — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 03:09:57 +0000

@Judith - good point. It’s a combination of two problems a) I don’t work for money alone b) There is a certain inertia in a career in that I don’t feel like quitting the instant I hit my crossover point. It will most likely more be a situation where I simply don’t apply for a new job when my current contract runs out.

By: Shanti @ Antishay Ventenne

Shanti @ Antishay Ventenne — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 08:09:42 +0000

This post made me smile all over. And now you’ve got me thinking… thanks for provoking my brain!

By: Judith

Judith — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 05:58:07 +0000

Jacob-

You say you value time so you’d rather work less. And you say you’re already financially independent. But it seems to me that you work quite a lot - both in a day job and your freelance work.

By: Jacob

Jacob — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 20:39:57 +0000

Ha! I find that I don’t really need to respond any comments here anymore. In fact, I was in the process of writing a response and then “pling” (you have email).. another comment covered part of my response .. delete delete … write some more .. “pling” … argh .. delete again.

So I think we can agree that we are all utility maximizers but that we have different values. For me the marginal utility of money is small. I’m slightly amused at quiz shows where people can win $100,000. It is amusing because $100k has very little marginal utility to me, so I’m wondering what these people get so excited about. Obviously their marginal utility is big enough to be exciting. My marginal utility of time is high. (By time I mean quality time i.e. for me sitting in a wheelchair with alzheimers would not be quality time, so I am not interested in maximizing longevity per se). Now, it’s impossible to buy time. However, by consuming less, I can work less and thus indirectly buy time. As a side note I also remark that my marginal utility of stuff is fairly low. Even beyond a certain point, new stuff is nice … but only for a week or two. The effort that needs to be put into it is not worth it to me though. Creativity has a very high marginal utility for me. I would work for free if the creative component/learning curve was high/steep enough.

By: Hannah

Hannah — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 20:12:19 +0000

I think the three of you should team up and start a new blog, it would be so very entertaining! The diversity and depth of opinions are very interesting and helpful… one can literally see all the different sides of a given issue. I find myself agreeing with everyone: the original post is, as usual, completely rational and true. But I understand Adfecto’s moderation/live-in-the-moment/enjoy the journey philosophy. Then again, Mr. Austin does a nice job of killing two birds with one stone: one can both minimize expenses while maximizing pleasure, through hobbies that do not require a lot, if any, money. *Time* is a very important feature of this approach, as you say. For example, my two greatest hobbies are reading and oil painting, both of which produce pleasure that parallels the length of time I spend on these activities. No amount of money in the world can “buy” this experience for me, only time.
I understand that this approach is considered foreign in America, where one hardly mentions the value of time but rather quantifies everyone in terms of dollars and cents. I understand that it all leads to money at some point, but I guess the debate here can be simplified to: do you seek to maximize your spending power (fun through consumption) or your leisure time (fun through creativity/hobbies)?

By: Debbie M

Debbie M — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 19:58:55 +0000

I think what we normally do is get insurance so that if the employment water tap is turned off, we can access the unemployment tap or the disability insurance tap, not to mention the health insurance tap, death and dismemberment tap, and even the paid sick leave tap.

It seems easier to pay for this insurance (or to hope we won’t need it!) than to prepare for it to turn off.

Similarly, just walking away from a tap gushing with clean, cool, delicious water just seems dumb.

By: Steve Austin

Steve Austin — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 18:06:18 +0000

Various comments for Adfecto to absorb (I do love reading his contra-contrarianism):
* the money tap may not completely run dry for you (but beware the black swan), however you forfeit much control by not limiting what you suckle and consume from any employer’s teet
* by not spending less now (minimizing present life in your view), you impair your future capacity to create memories of good times that require little to no spending of saved money
* the deepest experiences (of body, mind, and heart) come from precisely those things that cannot be obtained via the expenditure of money but rather by the expenditure of time — these things and experiences are more precious than their material analogue: buying precious commodities with money — also consider that the quest for deep experiences does not detract from a parallel quest for the broad portfolio of experiences
* the more money you trade your life for and then blow on material experiences, the more time you forfeit for non-material experiences
* you disregard a couple of important platitudes at your (financial peril):
- continuously widen your margin of safety!
- less *is* more!

I have begun to find comfort in the pattern here: ERE posts, Adfecto comments, Steve Austin comments on comments. So predictable! Would someone please break this pattern on our behalf? I wish to be uncomfortable. ;-\

By: Adfecto

Adfecto — Mon, 07 Apr 2008 16:49:41 +0000

Good analogy but as usual I don’t whole heartedly agree. When I make a budget I allocate money into spending categories and then spend until it is gone. It is a stream of resources that are finite but abundant enough for my needs and most of what I want.

With regard to the scarcity of water, desalinification and better reuse may be required in the future to support our water “habit” but there is plenty of H2O to go around. It is a simple matter of supply and demand. If supplies decrease we’ll all pay more. I have no problem with that. We have the technology to make the oceans drinkable, problem solved. Oil would be a better substitution.

With money, I also don’t have any expectation of the tap running dry (my ability to do meaningful work for money is established and insured). Thus all I ask for with regard to spending is memories of the good times I had parting with the money. I’ll “grow” more!

I budget money toward getting out of the rat race (401k and Roth IRA savings) but then the rest is for the sole purpose of maximizing quality of life. I want depth and breadth of experience and that does not come for free.

You want to minimize your life and I want to maximize mine.