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	<title>Comments on: The cult of index investing</title>
	<atom:link href="http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/07/the-cult-of-index-investing-why-it-will-be-gone-in-ten-years.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/07/the-cult-of-index-investing-why-it-will-be-gone-in-ten-years.html</link>
	<description>Financial independence, frugality, self-sufficiency, ecology, capitalism, and voluntary simplicity</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 11:30:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: RC</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/07/the-cult-of-index-investing-why-it-will-be-gone-in-ten-years.html/comment-page-1#comment-1595</link>
		<dc:creator>RC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:56:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=266#comment-1595</guid>
		<description>Jacob, do some research on DFA - Dimensional Fund Advisors. They advocate Small Cap/Value Indexing. You bring up some good points, but fall very short on others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jacob, do some research on DFA - Dimensional Fund Advisors. They advocate Small Cap/Value Indexing. You bring up some good points, but fall very short on others.</p>
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		<title>By: matt g</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/07/the-cult-of-index-investing-why-it-will-be-gone-in-ten-years.html/comment-page-1#comment-1575</link>
		<dc:creator>matt g</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 19:31:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=266#comment-1575</guid>
		<description>Indexing isn't necessarily limited to large caps - there are also small cap indexes, and "value" indexes, and various combinations, etc.  Not all indexers are drinking the exact same kool-aid either - check out some of the more argumentative posts at boggleheads.org for examples of that.

If literally EVERYONE indexed - we'd be the blind leading the blind, as you have noted.  In that situation, some smart guy would notice that and say, "Hey wow, the market prices are really disconnected from what I think the fair value is," and *boom* we have active investors again.  I can't imagine a situation where we won't have some active investors keeping the markets more or less efficient, because there is always someone looking to profit from inefficiencies.  That's not to say that the corresponding market moves may not be violent if nobody sees it coming, but...

The reason that I'm generally fond of indexes right now is because of the inequality of information between Fund Company A and the Investor.  Its the same relationship as the one between the used car salesman and the consumer, except that in that case, the consumer expects a hefty discount on the car to compensate for the lack of a guarantee that it actually is a good car.  In the fund case, not only does the fund company skip the discount for the extra risk, the typically charge you more for it.  I also feel ill-equipped to separate the fund wheat from the fund chaff, in order to pick a winner.

Seems like the logical answer there is to pick your own stocks - but that's definitely not something everyone can do and expect better-than-index results.  I'm looking into becoming a more active investor, and in the mean time think indexing is a good idea.  Even when I'm taking a more active roll in my investments, there will be segments that I won't have the experience/economies of scale to manage myself (international, EM, etc), and I think indexes are a good fit there.

I can agree with you that the "cult of the index" (i.e. assuming guaranteed, work-free 10%+ returns for life) is a bad thing, but I don't think indexes are inherently evil.  Do you have any thoughts on that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indexing isn&#8217;t necessarily limited to large caps - there are also small cap indexes, and &#8220;value&#8221; indexes, and various combinations, etc.  Not all indexers are drinking the exact same kool-aid either - check out some of the more argumentative posts at boggleheads.org for examples of that.</p>
<p>If literally EVERYONE indexed - we&#8217;d be the blind leading the blind, as you have noted.  In that situation, some smart guy would notice that and say, &#8220;Hey wow, the market prices are really disconnected from what I think the fair value is,&#8221; and *boom* we have active investors again.  I can&#8217;t imagine a situation where we won&#8217;t have some active investors keeping the markets more or less efficient, because there is always someone looking to profit from inefficiencies.  That&#8217;s not to say that the corresponding market moves may not be violent if nobody sees it coming, but&#8230;</p>
<p>The reason that I&#8217;m generally fond of indexes right now is because of the inequality of information between Fund Company A and the Investor.  Its the same relationship as the one between the used car salesman and the consumer, except that in that case, the consumer expects a hefty discount on the car to compensate for the lack of a guarantee that it actually is a good car.  In the fund case, not only does the fund company skip the discount for the extra risk, the typically charge you more for it.  I also feel ill-equipped to separate the fund wheat from the fund chaff, in order to pick a winner.</p>
<p>Seems like the logical answer there is to pick your own stocks - but that&#8217;s definitely not something everyone can do and expect better-than-index results.  I&#8217;m looking into becoming a more active investor, and in the mean time think indexing is a good idea.  Even when I&#8217;m taking a more active roll in my investments, there will be segments that I won&#8217;t have the experience/economies of scale to manage myself (international, EM, etc), and I think indexes are a good fit there.</p>
<p>I can agree with you that the &#8220;cult of the index&#8221; (i.e. assuming guaranteed, work-free 10%+ returns for life) is a bad thing, but I don&#8217;t think indexes are inherently evil.  Do you have any thoughts on that?</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/07/the-cult-of-index-investing-why-it-will-be-gone-in-ten-years.html/comment-page-1#comment-1552</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 23:56:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=266#comment-1552</guid>
		<description>@wannabefree - That would be the easiest way of compiling them and while I don't know (it doesn't say) my guess is yes. It's no surprise really, buy&#38;hold tends to do well in a trending market whereas trading, which is what most funds do, does well in a trading range.

@FHR - Unfortunately, I'm too lazy to write one. A big problem with doing something like that is that my pick will inevitably reflect my personal investment philosophy as well as my level of skills -- not necessarily whether the books are any good for anyone else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@wannabefree - That would be the easiest way of compiling them and while I don&#8217;t know (it doesn&#8217;t say) my guess is yes. It&#8217;s no surprise really, buy&amp;hold tends to do well in a trending market whereas trading, which is what most funds do, does well in a trading range.</p>
<p>@FHR - Unfortunately, I&#8217;m too lazy to write one. A big problem with doing something like that is that my pick will inevitably reflect my personal investment philosophy as well as my level of skills &#8212; not necessarily whether the books are any good for anyone else.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/07/the-cult-of-index-investing-why-it-will-be-gone-in-ten-years.html/comment-page-1#comment-1551</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 19:03:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=266#comment-1551</guid>
		<description>The ease of an index fund attracts me. At the same time I'm not in that place yet where I want to go for one. ING's Streetwise fund is at 3% while their regular saving account is at 3% too. Don't see the benefit then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ease of an index fund attracts me. At the same time I&#8217;m not in that place yet where I want to go for one. ING&#8217;s Streetwise fund is at 3% while their regular saving account is at 3% too. Don&#8217;t see the benefit then.</p>
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		<title>By: FHR</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/07/the-cult-of-index-investing-why-it-will-be-gone-in-ten-years.html/comment-page-1#comment-1549</link>
		<dc:creator>FHR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 18:16:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=266#comment-1549</guid>
		<description>Jacob,

Saw the mention of the Mauboussin book and was wondering if you would maybe do a blog posting some of your favorite investing books.  Of course, you may have done this in the past but I'm too lazy to look at old-er posts.

Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jacob,</p>
<p>Saw the mention of the Mauboussin book and was wondering if you would maybe do a blog posting some of your favorite investing books.  Of course, you may have done this in the past but I&#8217;m too lazy to look at old-er posts.</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: wannabefree</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/07/the-cult-of-index-investing-why-it-will-be-gone-in-ten-years.html/comment-page-1#comment-1548</link>
		<dc:creator>wannabefree</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 17:01:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=266#comment-1548</guid>
		<description>Just curious, but is the your list of outperforming funds net of fees?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just curious, but is the your list of outperforming funds net of fees?</p>
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		<title>By: Ron@TheWisdomJournal</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/07/the-cult-of-index-investing-why-it-will-be-gone-in-ten-years.html/comment-page-1#comment-1546</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron@TheWisdomJournal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 14:43:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=266#comment-1546</guid>
		<description>"Cult" may be a strong word, but I think you're on track. 

"All intelligent investing is value investing - to acquire more than you are paying for. Investing is where you find a few great companies and then sit on your ass."
- Charlie Munger</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Cult&#8221; may be a strong word, but I think you&#8217;re on track. </p>
<p>&#8220;All intelligent investing is value investing - to acquire more than you are paying for. Investing is where you find a few great companies and then sit on your ass.&#8221;<br />
- Charlie Munger</p>
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