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	<title>Comments on: The cult of index investing</title>
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		<title>By: RC</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/07/the-cult-of-index-investing-why-it-will-be-gone-in-ten-years.html/comment-page-1#comment-1595</link>
		<dc:creator>RC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 17:56:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Jacob, do some research on DFA - Dimensional Fund Advisors. They advocate Small Cap/Value Indexing. You bring up some good points, but fall very short on others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jacob, do some research on DFA &#8211; Dimensional Fund Advisors. They advocate Small Cap/Value Indexing. You bring up some good points, but fall very short on others.</p>
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		<title>By: matt g</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/07/the-cult-of-index-investing-why-it-will-be-gone-in-ten-years.html/comment-page-1#comment-1575</link>
		<dc:creator>matt g</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 19:31:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=266#comment-1575</guid>
		<description>Indexing isn&#039;t necessarily limited to large caps - there are also small cap indexes, and &quot;value&quot; indexes, and various combinations, etc.  Not all indexers are drinking the exact same kool-aid either - check out some of the more argumentative posts at boggleheads.org for examples of that.

If literally EVERYONE indexed - we&#039;d be the blind leading the blind, as you have noted.  In that situation, some smart guy would notice that and say, &quot;Hey wow, the market prices are really disconnected from what I think the fair value is,&quot; and *boom* we have active investors again.  I can&#039;t imagine a situation where we won&#039;t have some active investors keeping the markets more or less efficient, because there is always someone looking to profit from inefficiencies.  That&#039;s not to say that the corresponding market moves may not be violent if nobody sees it coming, but...

The reason that I&#039;m generally fond of indexes right now is because of the inequality of information between Fund Company A and the Investor.  Its the same relationship as the one between the used car salesman and the consumer, except that in that case, the consumer expects a hefty discount on the car to compensate for the lack of a guarantee that it actually is a good car.  In the fund case, not only does the fund company skip the discount for the extra risk, the typically charge you more for it.  I also feel ill-equipped to separate the fund wheat from the fund chaff, in order to pick a winner.

Seems like the logical answer there is to pick your own stocks - but that&#039;s definitely not something everyone can do and expect better-than-index results.  I&#039;m looking into becoming a more active investor, and in the mean time think indexing is a good idea.  Even when I&#039;m taking a more active roll in my investments, there will be segments that I won&#039;t have the experience/economies of scale to manage myself (international, EM, etc), and I think indexes are a good fit there.

I can agree with you that the &quot;cult of the index&quot; (i.e. assuming guaranteed, work-free 10%+ returns for life) is a bad thing, but I don&#039;t think indexes are inherently evil.  Do you have any thoughts on that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indexing isn&#8217;t necessarily limited to large caps &#8211; there are also small cap indexes, and &#8220;value&#8221; indexes, and various combinations, etc.  Not all indexers are drinking the exact same kool-aid either &#8211; check out some of the more argumentative posts at boggleheads.org for examples of that.</p>
<p>If literally EVERYONE indexed &#8211; we&#8217;d be the blind leading the blind, as you have noted.  In that situation, some smart guy would notice that and say, &#8220;Hey wow, the market prices are really disconnected from what I think the fair value is,&#8221; and *boom* we have active investors again.  I can&#8217;t imagine a situation where we won&#8217;t have some active investors keeping the markets more or less efficient, because there is always someone looking to profit from inefficiencies.  That&#8217;s not to say that the corresponding market moves may not be violent if nobody sees it coming, but&#8230;</p>
<p>The reason that I&#8217;m generally fond of indexes right now is because of the inequality of information between Fund Company A and the Investor.  Its the same relationship as the one between the used car salesman and the consumer, except that in that case, the consumer expects a hefty discount on the car to compensate for the lack of a guarantee that it actually is a good car.  In the fund case, not only does the fund company skip the discount for the extra risk, the typically charge you more for it.  I also feel ill-equipped to separate the fund wheat from the fund chaff, in order to pick a winner.</p>
<p>Seems like the logical answer there is to pick your own stocks &#8211; but that&#8217;s definitely not something everyone can do and expect better-than-index results.  I&#8217;m looking into becoming a more active investor, and in the mean time think indexing is a good idea.  Even when I&#8217;m taking a more active roll in my investments, there will be segments that I won&#8217;t have the experience/economies of scale to manage myself (international, EM, etc), and I think indexes are a good fit there.</p>
<p>I can agree with you that the &#8220;cult of the index&#8221; (i.e. assuming guaranteed, work-free 10%+ returns for life) is a bad thing, but I don&#8217;t think indexes are inherently evil.  Do you have any thoughts on that?</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/07/the-cult-of-index-investing-why-it-will-be-gone-in-ten-years.html/comment-page-1#comment-1552</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 23:56:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=266#comment-1552</guid>
		<description>@wannabefree - That would be the easiest way of compiling them and while I don&#039;t know (it doesn&#039;t say) my guess is yes. It&#039;s no surprise really, buy&amp;hold tends to do well in a trending market whereas trading, which is what most funds do, does well in a trading range.

@FHR - Unfortunately, I&#039;m too lazy to write one. A big problem with doing something like that is that my pick will inevitably reflect my personal investment philosophy as well as my level of skills -- not necessarily whether the books are any good for anyone else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@wannabefree &#8211; That would be the easiest way of compiling them and while I don&#8217;t know (it doesn&#8217;t say) my guess is yes. It&#8217;s no surprise really, buy&amp;hold tends to do well in a trending market whereas trading, which is what most funds do, does well in a trading range.</p>
<p>@FHR &#8211; Unfortunately, I&#8217;m too lazy to write one. A big problem with doing something like that is that my pick will inevitably reflect my personal investment philosophy as well as my level of skills &#8212; not necessarily whether the books are any good for anyone else.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/07/the-cult-of-index-investing-why-it-will-be-gone-in-ten-years.html/comment-page-1#comment-1551</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 19:03:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=266#comment-1551</guid>
		<description>The ease of an index fund attracts me. At the same time I&#039;m not in that place yet where I want to go for one. ING&#039;s Streetwise fund is at 3% while their regular saving account is at 3% too. Don&#039;t see the benefit then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ease of an index fund attracts me. At the same time I&#8217;m not in that place yet where I want to go for one. ING&#8217;s Streetwise fund is at 3% while their regular saving account is at 3% too. Don&#8217;t see the benefit then.</p>
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		<title>By: FHR</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/07/the-cult-of-index-investing-why-it-will-be-gone-in-ten-years.html/comment-page-1#comment-1549</link>
		<dc:creator>FHR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 18:16:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=266#comment-1549</guid>
		<description>Jacob,

Saw the mention of the Mauboussin book and was wondering if you would maybe do a blog posting some of your favorite investing books.  Of course, you may have done this in the past but I&#039;m too lazy to look at old-er posts.

Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jacob,</p>
<p>Saw the mention of the Mauboussin book and was wondering if you would maybe do a blog posting some of your favorite investing books.  Of course, you may have done this in the past but I&#8217;m too lazy to look at old-er posts.</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: wannabefree</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/07/the-cult-of-index-investing-why-it-will-be-gone-in-ten-years.html/comment-page-1#comment-1548</link>
		<dc:creator>wannabefree</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 17:01:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=266#comment-1548</guid>
		<description>Just curious, but is the your list of outperforming funds net of fees?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just curious, but is the your list of outperforming funds net of fees?</p>
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		<title>By: Ron@TheWisdomJournal</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2008/07/the-cult-of-index-investing-why-it-will-be-gone-in-ten-years.html/comment-page-1#comment-1546</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron@TheWisdomJournal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jul 2008 14:43:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=266#comment-1546</guid>
		<description>&quot;Cult&quot; may be a strong word, but I think you&#039;re on track. 

&quot;All intelligent investing is value investing - to acquire more than you are paying for. Investing is where you find a few great companies and then sit on your ass.&quot;
- Charlie Munger</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Cult&#8221; may be a strong word, but I think you&#8217;re on track. </p>
<p>&#8220;All intelligent investing is value investing &#8211; to acquire more than you are paying for. Investing is where you find a few great companies and then sit on your ass.&#8221;<br />
- Charlie Munger</p>
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