“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others”. - Animal Farm

There are those who have the aptitude, focus, and motivation to make higher education productive and there are those who do not. I knew by the time I was 10 years old that I wanted to be an engineer. A few years later I knew that I would be a Computer Engineer. Math, physics, and technology are areas in which I have always excelled and found enjoyment. The obvious conclusion for was for me to get a highly technical education (Masters for now) in the field. The teachers, staff, facilities, and fellow students which my tuition paid for added greatly to my mastery of the subject and practical application thereof.

The vast majority of people I went to school with were not like me.

Higher Education is a waste for many many people. It has become a series of hoops to stumble through to get a piece of paper that deems a peon to be slightly above the level of village idiot. Before the age of the public library, and certainly the age of the internet, knowledge was locked up in the halls of academia and going to a University was the only way to build on the collective knowledge of society. Now, I can learn more in a week with a $400 PC and a high speed connection than a pitiful majority learn in their 4 full years of business school.

Those who want to learn will find a way. Those who want to abuse the system will do that too. The government does not need to be spending tax payer’s money for the later. The immature or unmotivated grads that go to college to “grow up” or “get a broader view of the world” should be doing it on their own dime, not mine (or even their parents). Those who lack aptitude should spend their efforts on skills the befit them. Employers should use real achievement to judge a job seeker and not a piece of very expensive paper.

I’ll get off my rant now, but I’m really glad I got that out of my system.

Please disregard that comment. I went back and read it and was embarrassed before I even saw your comments. It’s the type of simplistic and reactionary comment I generally dislike in others. Chalk it up to temporary stupidity and please accept my apologies.

I have a 19 year old, and a 21 year old. I sure wouldn’t just send them off to “different spots around the world with a backpack of books.”, just as I wouldn’t send a child to a different city with just a backpack of books. Kids that age can get into trouble, you know. They have to have a plan. Perhaps a reputable volunteer program somewhere. Perhaps an exchange program. But they’d have to want to do it. Most young people out of high school really don’t know much about the world, and therefore aren’t so interested in exploring it until they’ve learned something about it. Unless they show a really strong desire to go to another country and have a game plan, I’d invest my money on their education instead, at the university level if they show the motivation and the aptitude for it.

“University grads have been some of the most narrow-minded people I’ve met.”

I don’t get this statement…you mean the grads you’ve met have been mostly narrow-minded? How many non-grads do you know?

I’ve met far too many university graduates to think that’s generally true. University grads have been some of the most narrow-minded people I’ve met.

I’d guess it’s because a lot of schools have abandoned the goal of widening minds to the goal of pumping out degrees. University can provide a broader view but that’s not what many kids are looking for and nopt what many institutions are focussed on and so it often doesn’t happen.

If broader minds is the goal then take a quarter of what a kid would spend on college, buy him plane tickets for different spots around the world and send him/her off with a backpack full of books.

A university education is qualitatively different in that the subjects being offered at university are usually subjects that challenge the mind. As well, the university culture is one where ideas and values are often challenged. At least that was my experience: university subjects taught a broader view of the world; vocational college courses dealt with the subject matter at hand and that was all.

Jacob, you’re a smart guy so I know that you are aware that while volunteering in a soup kitchen or getting a library card can be mind opening, it’s not nearly in the same league as studying a difficult subject, taking part in campus life, struggling at exam time, etc etc., for 3 or 4 years away from home.

Now, volunteering for a political organization or moving to another country can certainly be mind opening, but you have to have a broad view of the world to be interested in those things. I can’t say for sure but I suspect that the majority of people who volunteer for political organizations and those Canadians and Americans who want to experience living in other countries are those who have had a broad education, probably at the university level.

Just my 2 cents.

I’m not saying that moving out/away and signing up for university classes can’t be a mind-opening experience of personal growth and enlightenment. However, I would equally well posit that higher education is not unique in providing these experiences. And besides - how exactly is college classes qualitatively different from high school classes? Moving to another country for a year or ten or volunteering in a soup kitchen, or working for a political organization, or even getting a library card will be equally mind-opening.

And generally somewhat more productive. That is just my opinion of course.

“Why Universities Need to Raise their Admissions Standards”.

@FHR, those students who are only concerned with getting drunk, playing on their laptops and getting screwed probably wouldn’t behave better in vocational training. They need to GROW UP!

(The fact that young adults act more like adolescents in these times would be another good topic!)

First, all students should not go to college. Loads of students in my classes could care less about anything except getting drunk, screwing each other, and playing with their laptop/IPOD/etc. The students who really care and want to learn, the ones who ask good questions, are never engaged and often feel neglected because the professors end up babysitting the lower 25th percentile. Realistically, these students should be hitting community college in order to become firefighters, electricians, policeman, etc. There’s no shame in these professions and most of the above professions will earn more $ than a stoner who earns a BA in English/History/Art/etc. It’s been preached to kids for so long how they have to go to college to get a “good” job…..now they just believe it.

Also, it’s not just the undergrad programs that are suffering from a lack of interest. The graduate programs are in disrepair as well. The thirst for knowlege is in short supply. Nowadays, kids/adults only care about getting an A or a B. They don’t care about actually learning anything and that’s really hurting our entire educational system. Kids know how to play the game: skate through classes, cram for tests, cheat, copy homeworks, etc.

For a decent documentary about the “decline” of the US educational system, check out: Declining by Degrees: Higher Education at Risk.

@Stacey…..realize when a post is made about students and higher education, it’s not necessarily directed at you. While YOU may have risen above the odds, not all (or even half) of students do. Most just take the free federal aid (or susbidies) and waste their time getting useless degrees (or just accumulating more debt). I have students in my classes who are graduating with BA in Psychology (or something else not in demand by corporate America) with 40K+ in student loan debt….who knows how much they have in CC debt. That’s not a good way to start out.