Comments on: Children and early retirement

By: spicedhamcatch

spicedhamcatch — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 23:05:15 +0000

This all makes good sense for parents of typically developing children.

A medically fragile or severely disabled child can be financially devastating, though. Or not, I suppose – I’ve never tried ER + high need child (and when I say high need, I mean high need, not high want). Kids don’t come with guarantees of good health, though, and while some folks have mentioned health care, not every child with extra needs has the same extra needs and it’s kind of amazing what can be denied by health insurance companies.

By: Rufus

Rufus — Sat, 18 Jun 2011 21:31:01 +0000

You have some good, well-founded aspirations for parenthood there, Jacob, but fundamentally I never believe anyone who pontificates about parenthood unless they’re a parent. It’s good to have goals – but children bring surprises you can’t ever envisage. The strength of EPE lies in your experiences. But in this arena you’re merely a theoretician.

By: Little House in the Valley - Saving with a Plan

Little House in the Valley - Saving with a Plan — Wed, 09 Feb 2011 13:03:02 +0000

[...] Retirement Extreme with Children and Early Retirement. I don’t have kids yet either, but Jacob makes some good points that children can be fully [...]

By: retirebyforty

retirebyforty — Mon, 07 Feb 2011 21:25:08 +0000

Living with kids in small spaces are fine when they’re young. I have 2 brothers and the family all slept in one small room for many years. When things got better, we moved to a two bedrooms apartment and that was just fine even when we were teens.

By: Your Own Retirement

Your Own Retirement — Mon, 07 Feb 2011 20:29:31 +0000

I think proper retirement planning sometimes goes beyond just yourself and your spouse and overlaps into the family. The decisions you make effect everyone whether the kids are young or much older.

By: Jen

Jen — Mon, 07 Feb 2011 13:46:24 +0000

What’s annoying is, at least where I live, elementary school parents are EXPECTED to basically hold their child’s hand throughout the homework process and correct it for them. I have to sign my son’s notebook every day and also work with him to correct all his mistakes. I don’t mind doing it, but I always did my own homework and I think that taught me a lot of independence. I believe our society makes a big mistake by not expecting more of our kids. How do you expect kids to magically become responsible at 18 when they have never had a job, done a chore, stood up for themselves, etc?

I also am cutting back on things for my kids lately as I have noticed that the more you do for them, the more they expect and they are rarely grateful. If you do nothing for a while, suddenly going out for an ice cream cone is a big deal! Do it every week and they start asking for the double scoop and a soda.

By: Luke

Luke — Mon, 07 Feb 2011 10:13:08 +0000

Jacob, can’t agree that children shouldn’t be given an allowance, it sounds too stern for my liking. Perhaps it would be fairer to give them a small allowance and give them the option to top it up with earned income from housework etc. over and above their standard chores (I’m guessing you’d approve of kids having some chores?)

I was raised in a very frugal household (frugal because my parents remarried and we ended up with 5 kids). While my parents did well by us (good education, love), children will usually resent living a life that seems ‘poorer’ than that of their peers.

Might not sound logical to us grown ups, but when were children ever logical?

By: frugalscholar

frugalscholar — Sun, 06 Feb 2011 17:55:57 +0000

I’ve said many times that I kept waiting for my kids to get expensive. It hasn’t happened (ages 20 and 22). Amy D of Tightwad Gazette fame raised SIX children the frugal way. Oh yeah–she and her hubby were early retired as well. She did have an infusion of cash from her business, but she closed it down after only a few years. I think she could have done it even without her unexpected success.

By: Tom

Tom — Sun, 06 Feb 2011 14:37:20 +0000

I don’t agree with not having an allowance.

Allowance provides a means for them to exercise their own sovereignty and self-determination. They can do anything they want with their money as long as it’s not barred by the State.

It’s not there as payment for services rendered in the household. It’s there for learning how to manage money and experience those decisions directly.

But having no allowance at all gives them little understanding of how to manage their money or what it can do. Please keep in mind that their allowance was $5 a week for 14 years.

It’s hardly anything worth counting to them. Which is perfect. Because when they do check their allowance (autopayments to an account) they learn that have $100′s for that emergency.

That’s a valuable lesson in independence and self-determination that may be worth that $520 a year. Cheaper than cello lessons!

Had I the opportunity to do it over again, I would have set up an investment account for each of them and draw allowance from that for their allowance. Effectively putting them into an ERE before they turn 16. Then they can choose to take their paychecks and put them into their investments, increasing their allowance for life, or spending it on a pair of jeans.

By: Steven

Steven — Sun, 06 Feb 2011 10:58:21 +0000

There is one way having children can preclude early retirement.

If a spouse leaves and claims child support then the paying spouse can be locked into paying 30% of pre-separation income for 15+ years as well as probably losing 60%+ of joint assets.

By: krantcents

krantcents — Sun, 06 Feb 2011 04:28:54 +0000

My children did not stop me from “retiring” the first time. They were 13 and 9 at the time. They were in private school at the time. It just took more to accomplish the goal. My children are adults now (37 & 33). The are very successful, debt free except a mortgage and some student debt. My wife and I spent considerable time with them as they grew up and still talk to them several times a week.

By: bigato

bigato — Sun, 16 Jan 2011 18:21:02 +0000

To those talking about diapers, I know about a mom that had 5 children and claims that she didn’t used diaper on them. Not even cloth diaper. She learned how to perceive when they would need and take them to bathroom. I don’t know if it’s doable, but there is always cloth diapers. They are easier to clean than you think. I did it when my brother was baby.

Jacob, after reading what you said I have to agree that you must have children, as you seem like you would be a great father. I would like to ask why don’t want to have children, that is, if you want to answer that question. I’m reading the full blog from backwards, so if you already write it somewhere, you don’t need to answer this as I will get there.

For me, when I have children, I won’t give then even a cent in money. They get used to get money for nothing, and that’s a really bad influence in their education. I saw it happen. Instead, I would prefer to teach them to produce and sell something. Like vegetables from the garden or some hand-made thing. I loved the tip to let them spend half and have them to save the rest, spending only the allowed interest rate. This way they get FI really extremely early!

By: LivinlavidaIraq

LivinlavidaIraq — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:06:26 +0000

I was raised in a very frugal household, because my parents had very specific financial goals. It was hard to live with some times; our house was nowhere near the standards of my schoolmates and included a long drive that few parents were willing to make. As a result, yes I had a very limited social life. Looking back it was worth it, we had animals and gardens, I learned how to drive a tractor while my age was still in the single digits and I learned the value of hard work. I never got an allowance, but I and all my sisters were able to go to a semi-private research school with a super low student/teacher ratio. We never did any of the after school clubs except band because it was free and my parents thought it was important that we all know how to play at least 2 instruments. I earned my own money by selling manure to the orchard down the road and picking when their crops were ripe. It’s true, especially at that age, that I valued my money a whole lot more when I know what I went through to earn it.
For weekend social time we had 4-H. We got to meet other kids from around the county and had tons of leadership opportunities for free/small cost. When the week long 4-H summer camp rolled around my parents let us go if we paid for it ourselves. I felt like such an adult going into the extension office cash in hand to register all by myself. 4-H taught me so much “learn by doing” they said and had books about almost everything, adults to give advice on how to do cheap projects and tools to lend. As an adult with a daughter who is still too young to participate I volunteer regularly when home and still get almost as much out of it. I recently sent home pictures, info on plants and animals and recordings of native Arabic speakers to my county extension office because they wanted to know more about what it’s like over here.
Anyway for what its worth, I thought the first 2 years were the most expensive as far as child rearing, was soooo happy to get rid of diapers!

By: Strick

Strick — Wed, 08 Apr 2009 13:31:47 +0000

“I suspect children cost exactly as much as you are capable of spending.”

Yep. $100/month will feed and clothe a child. The only other things they need are stimulation/activity/love/learning, all of which either require your time OR money to try to find a suitable replacement for your time. And trust me, there is no suitable replacement.

The only exception I’ve found to this, admittedly a huge exception, is health care.

By: JA

JA — Thu, 05 Feb 2009 20:58:20 +0000

@Moneyblogga-as an Orange County, CA person I can definitely see that being a problem. We send our kids to private school and live in a teensy 2 bd. apt after selling our house. I have considered the RV’ing thing a few times, but wasn’t sure how it would work with friends over, etc. I know that I would feel weird about sending my kid to an RV park or to an overnight so I figured that would happen with other parents as well. I seriously think that some parents are even weirded out by an apartment. I don’t think it is necessarily the affluence or lack thereof; I think it is the fact / perceived fact that at least in the OC apartments and trailer parks / rv parks are occupied by those in society who have had hard knocks or something wrong with them that they can’t be in a regular ‘house’. Not by someone who is frugal by choice.

By: Moneyblogga

Moneyblogga — Thu, 05 Feb 2009 18:21:09 +0000

As someone who RV’d for a couple of years with four kids, I can tell you that (in our neck of the woods at that time at least) our kids wouldn’t have had one friend to play with, never mind play dates. Our RV was a luxury model, one of the best on any campground we stayed at. That was not enough, however, to convince the parents of our kids’ schoolmates to leave their kids with us or to even have our kids over to play. Yes, we lived in a wealthy area in California and so perhaps that sort of snobbery was more highly pervasive in that area than in others. Nonetheless, we found that school age children + the RV didn’t mix for us. We’d had a great time traveling the western US for a couple of years while the kids were pre-school age but, once school became a part of daily life, we sold the RV and bought a house.

By: Larissa

Larissa — Mon, 02 Feb 2009 11:11:22 +0000

@frugalscholar – RE: “For a view of how to do it with kids, see “The Tightwad Gazette.” Amy D had 6.”
Amy did not do ER on a salary with 6 kids. Her documented achievement was saving enough for a down payment on a house. She reached financial independence thanks to the success of the Tightwad gazette.

By: Jacob

Jacob — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 17:03:26 +0000

@JA – We have an enclosed shower stall and a small yard/lawn. Community plots are available around here, but we make do with potted plants.

By: Jacob

Jacob — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 17:02:32 +0000

Indeed, I did not want to come across as me never wanting to pay for children’s education or activities. It’s just that very many such offerings are much overpriced compared to the alternatives. In general I’m willing to pay a lot when something is meaningful e.g. if the kid was really good at soccer, I’d put the kid on the travel team, but if he/she was really that good, I probably wouldn’t have to pay for it. I would not pay for something just to build a resume, or to conform or entertain.

By: JA

JA — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 16:41:40 +0000

How do children take a bath in an RV? How do they learn to double dig a garden? Do you use a community plot (which costs money in my area at least) or how would you do that?

Just curious-I’ve considered going from our 800 sq. ft home to an RV but I’m not sure I would do that to my kids. Then again, that’s ‘extreme’