As long as there is society and other people in the world, everyone will be somewhat beholden to their fellow man. Everyone pays taxes, lives by the law and benefits from the things those taxes and laws allow for – police & fire protection, schools, etc. Is that being a “serf” or just enjoying the comforts of the modern world?

Uh, no. I can leave my employer without being hunted down. My boss doesn’t have the right to rape me (or even compliment me in an unsavory way). And if I screw up, I won’t be whipped or starved. My children cannot be sold into another family.

You make some valid points, but our shackles are a lot more roomy than those of slaves.

I’m happy that there are a variety of jobs I can choose from (not just farming), and I can choose to work for myself or under the direction of others. I can even easily move 1000 miles away (within my own huge country) to a better economy if I want to.

If I choose NOT to work a crazy number of many hours, I may be laid off, but am free to look for other work. If I don’t consume conspicuously, I will be shunned by some, but accepted by others. It stinks that we are encouraged to spend all we make and more, which reduces our flexibility, but even so, we can be loved, be sheltered and find meaning; we’ll just feel stressed and die young-ish but not really that young.

“The key to comfort and satisfaction, for me, is to be free to think about and do things without compromising my personal integrity or my standards or having to play politics for as large a part of my life as possible. ” Quote by Jacob @ http://earlyretirement extreme.com

Sums up Retirement for me.

Sure, if everything literally goes to hell then I will be the same place as everyone else. But that only really happens during true black swan events (e.g., world war expressed in my neighborhood). The current market downturn is not a catastrophe, not for me anyway.

“On Independence, Energy Subsidy, and Freedom”
http://campfire.theoildrum.com/node/5546

“Do our social freedoms emanate from the nature of our socio-political system, or the reverse – is our socio-political system a byproduct of the resources we acquired and used after finding this land?”

(1) in debt
(2) still have to work on someone else’s schedule
(3) unaware of your life purpose
(4) tied to addictions
(5) socially ostracized or discriminated against

etc.

Without getting into a genuinely philosophical debate about free will, which probably isn’t necessary here (in any case, the jury’s still out after 2000+ years), “freedom” is an idea, a very confusing idea.

The very concept of financial independence, as almost all bloggers (including yourself) define it is false, due to its dependence on societal cooperation. It’s impossible to truly be FF/FI while partaking in a monetary currency; everyone around you (i.e., your neighbors) has to agree your money is worth something.

If banks fail or economies collapse, you’re no better off than anyone else. True FF/FI doesn’t rely on currency; having more money just makes you less financially *dependent*, not FF/FI. It’s sort of like driving a highly fuel-efficient car while your neighbors drive regular vehicles. The price of fuel may impact you less, but you’re still dependent on the fuel and the hegemony our government uses to secure it. You’re still dependent on the heavily-subsidized infrastructure (i.e., roads) and regulations designed to make auto transportation feasible. Similarly, with financial independence, you may not need to spend as much time working day to day, but you’re just as dependent on societal infrastructure as anyone in a 9-5 job.

The idea that no wo/man is an island is as true today as it ever was. Unfortunately, so is the illusionary belief wo/men create time and time again that they’ve transcended a dependence on fellow human beings.

“that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights” Yes, isn’t that a pleasent thought but, as it stood then and as it stands now, we may have been endowed into our person upon birth with these ‘rights’ by some unknown force in a far off universe but in reality these rights L,L & P of H are only as good as the next person or government or even corporation allows them to be for us.

As for being ‘self-made’ no you’re not – you may have saved hundreds of thousands of dollars to live like you do now by self-imposed discipline but, you did not make that money alone. You were taught by others how to do physics, others gave you a paying job doing that physics. You read books written by others on frugality and saving. Others now allow you to do copy-editing for them so as you don’t have to draw upon your entire savings to live.

So no, no one person is ‘self-made’ there is usually dozens if not hundreds of other humans, actions, permissions, accesses, links, etc. behind the scenes of any ‘self-made’ person…

The idea of private property gives incentives to producers as they get to enjoy the rewards of their work. I think this is a good thing.

@Alex – Yes, they do. I think, living on the “refuse” of society provides valuable service, moreso than putting it in a landfill. I think squatting is questionable; this is more of a moral issue though. If people leave a place in the same condition or better than they found it, that’s good. If they thrash it or change it without the owner’s permission that’s not good: I think people who wants to squat should ask. And I think owners should say yes, subject to the above. So for me it boils down, not to whether people don’t people but to whether they make someone else pay for their way. I have a fairly low opinion of the latter. I like capitalism, but I’m not so die-hard that I think capitalism or commerce can solve all problems as long as markets are free. Capitalism is very good at solving profitable problems … and creating profitable problems. However, money is not the only source of value and eventually I hope to see capitalism be replaced with a triple-bottom line approach.

And another thought, didn’t the hobos under the bridge retire early?

What do you think of people who don’t try to pay their way out? Squatting, dumpster diving, etc.?

And, do you agree with capitalism?

Are we not all a serf in essence to something or someone? Be it job, money, wife, kids, house, banker, government, etc.

If humans were totally free on this Earth we would not have private ownership of property, as the basic human idea of private ownership of land consists of landowners thinking they have a valid right to it’s surface while non-landowners have no right at all to any of it surface.

We cannot move anywhere today without someones permission. If you think about it, a person walking down a ‘public road’ or a public hiking trail in a ‘public park’ is really only allowed to do so by permission of other humans.