Comments on: Day 14: Investing for early retirement – Part 1 http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-14-investing-for-early-retiremen.html --- a combination of simple living, anticonsumerism, DIY ethics, self-reliance, and applied capitalism Fri, 25 May 2012 19:02:53 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Caine http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-14-investing-for-early-retiremen.html/comment-page-1#comment-37272 Caine Sat, 17 Mar 2012 05:00:38 +0000 http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=1129#comment-37272 Anyone who invests in an index fund must be fundamentally optimistic about the performance of stocks in the long run. If so, why wouldn't you triple down with an ETF like SPX which would also provide you with a measure of security (chart watching and stop losses) not possible with mutual funds? Anyone who invests in an index fund must be fundamentally optimistic about the performance of stocks in the long run. If so, why wouldn’t you triple down with an ETF like SPX which would also provide you with a measure of security (chart watching and stop losses) not possible with mutual funds?

]]> By: Jacob http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-14-investing-for-early-retiremen.html/comment-page-1#comment-37256 Jacob Wed, 14 Mar 2012 23:41:41 +0000 http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=1129#comment-37256 Who beats who of course only applies if you plan to become a mutual fund manager yourself. Private investors who spend some years educating themselves can certainly beat the market much like you can get from A to B faster in your own car than a professional bus driver in a bus. However, there's no dishonor in using index funds and should the markets decline by 50%+ again and postpone people's retirement dreams for a few years, index investors can at least take comfort in being in the same boat as many others---even if it's sinking. Who beats who of course only applies if you plan to become a mutual fund manager yourself. Private investors who spend some years educating themselves can certainly beat the market much like you can get from A to B faster in your own car than a professional bus driver in a bus. However, there’s no dishonor in using index funds and should the markets decline by 50%+ again and postpone people’s retirement dreams for a few years, index investors can at least take comfort in being in the same boat as many others—even if it’s sinking.

]]> By: brinaldi http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-14-investing-for-early-retiremen.html/comment-page-1#comment-37255 brinaldi Wed, 14 Mar 2012 21:07:18 +0000 http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=1129#comment-37255 Do not pick stocks unless you think you can do just as good as Warren Buffett. Most money managers, active fund managers, can not out pace the market after cost. Even if you are as good as the average professional fund manager, after your time/cost you will not be beating the S&P500. The best option is to educate yourself on passive index fund investing. A good forum for this is the bogleheads. Do not pick stocks unless you think you can do just as good as Warren Buffett. Most money managers, active fund managers, can not out pace the market after cost. Even if you are as good as the average professional fund manager, after your time/cost you will not be beating the S&P500. The best option is to educate yourself on passive index fund investing. A good forum for this is the bogleheads.

]]> By: kathrynd http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-14-investing-for-early-retiremen.html/comment-page-1#comment-33657 kathrynd Sun, 11 Dec 2011 10:42:20 +0000 http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=1129#comment-33657 I am a millionaire,on paper. To look at me, you'd never know it.I drive a used vehicle,live in a one bedroom apt,buy my clothes from second hand stores. I shop for reduced food. I pick up pennies off the floor.If we buy furniture, it is second hand. At the age of 50, I quit my job.Six years ago, living with my husband (we are still married and living together), we still had 3 teenage sons living at home. We took the equity in our home, and started buying rental properties.I was never on a large income (30k)but for a year straight I worked 70 hrs a week to increase my income to $40K to qualify for mortgages. My husband was the homemaker, and also the day to day manager of our rentals.He painted, repaired,did maintenance on the properties. Finally after working non-stop our rental income was enought for us. Today we travel 8 months a year overseas (Australia) and live on $1000 month.We rent out our apt to a college student while we are gone. The first year we housesat and they provided us with a car to drive.All we needed to supply was our food, fuel, and transport from one housesit to another. This year we wanted to experience the Outback, so we took a job at caravan/motel place and they provide us with all meals and accommodation, and a wage. Loving it. This year we also bought a used van (campervan)so we can camp.Our campsites have been using the free ones. Living only needs to cost as much as you want it to. If there is something you want, try to get it for free..or at least cheap. Good luck everyone with your adventures. I am a millionaire,on paper. To look at me, you’d never know it.I drive a used vehicle,live in a one bedroom apt,buy my clothes from second hand stores. I shop for reduced food. I pick up pennies off the floor.If we buy furniture, it is second hand.
At the age of 50, I quit my job.Six years ago, living with my husband (we are still married and living together), we still had 3 teenage sons living at home. We took the equity in our home, and started buying rental properties.I was never on a large income (30k)but for a year straight I worked 70 hrs a week to increase my income to $40K to qualify for mortgages. My husband was the homemaker, and also the day to day manager of our rentals.He painted, repaired,did maintenance on the properties. Finally after working non-stop our rental income was enought for us.
Today we travel 8 months a year overseas (Australia) and live on $1000 month.We rent out our apt to a college student while we are gone. The first year we housesat and they provided us with a car to drive.All we needed to supply was our food, fuel, and transport from one housesit to another. This year we wanted to experience the Outback, so we took a job at caravan/motel place and they provide us with all meals and accommodation, and a wage. Loving it.
This year we also bought a used van (campervan)so we can camp.Our campsites have been using the free ones.
Living only needs to cost as much as you want it to. If there is something you want, try to get it for free..or at least cheap.
Good luck everyone with your adventures.

]]> By: Jacob http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-14-investing-for-early-retiremen.html/comment-page-1#comment-26460 Jacob Wed, 28 Sep 2011 15:57:34 +0000 http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=1129#comment-26460 @jennypenny - I've been told I'm stubborn. ;-) @jennypenny – I’ve been told I’m stubborn. ;-)

]]> By: jennypenny http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-14-investing-for-early-retiremen.html/comment-page-1#comment-26459 jennypenny Wed, 28 Sep 2011 15:53:17 +0000 http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=1129#comment-26459 @Jacob-You may not want to take me up on the offer. I've been told I'm brutal. @Jacob-You may not want to take me up on the offer. I’ve been told I’m brutal.

]]> By: Jacob http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-14-investing-for-early-retiremen.html/comment-page-1#comment-26424 Jacob Tue, 27 Sep 2011 20:39:30 +0000 http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=1129#comment-26424 @jennypenny - See http://earlyretirementextreme.com/what-kind-of-investment-books-do-you-recommend.html I'll keep the editing offer in mind. @jennypenny – See http://earlyretirementextreme.com/what-kind-of-investment-books-do-you-recommend.html

I’ll keep the editing offer in mind.

]]> By: jennypenny http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-14-investing-for-early-retiremen.html/comment-page-1#comment-26423 jennypenny Tue, 27 Sep 2011 19:51:06 +0000 http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=1129#comment-26423 So are you running them as a test to see which performs best? Or does it just keep things interesting for you? I hope you're working on your INV book. I'll volunteer my copy editing skills for an early peek at it ;) So are you running them as a test to see which performs best? Or does it just keep things interesting for you?

I hope you’re working on your INV book. I’ll volunteer my copy editing skills for an early peek at it ;)

]]> By: Jacob http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-14-investing-for-early-retiremen.html/comment-page-1#comment-26413 Jacob Tue, 27 Sep 2011 15:24:01 +0000 http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=1129#comment-26413 @jennypenny - I'm using several methods at once, _for me_. There's a difference between what I do myself and what I suggest for newbies. @jennypenny – I’m using several methods at once, _for me_. There’s a difference between what I do myself and what I suggest for newbies.

]]> By: jennypenny http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-14-investing-for-early-retiremen.html/comment-page-1#comment-26405 jennypenny Tue, 27 Sep 2011 12:22:39 +0000 http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=1129#comment-26405 So have you abandoned the DOTD completely for the PP? Are you using two methods at once? Do you still own REITs, and how do those fit in? I'm not hung up on a particular theory. I'm always more curious HOW people apply their preferred investment theory, and whether they go all in. Maybe this question should be on the forum. So have you abandoned the DOTD completely for the PP? Are you using two methods at once? Do you still own REITs, and how do those fit in? I’m not hung up on a particular theory. I’m always more curious HOW people apply their preferred investment theory, and whether they go all in.

Maybe this question should be on the forum.

]]> By: Jacob http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-14-investing-for-early-retiremen.html/comment-page-1#comment-26400 Jacob Tue, 27 Sep 2011 07:17:21 +0000 http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=1129#comment-26400 @hellofreedom - I make no recommendations of specific investment methods in the book. I find that people have widely different ideas about what they're comfortable with. It depends a lot on their emotional temperament AND their intellectual preferences. While people here generally agree on their savings goals, etc. they tend to disagree a lot on their investment methods. Being asked to give a general prescription of what people should invest in is almost like being asked to give a general prescription for what makes people happy. The INV book will not solve this problem and it will not provide a specific plan for anyone to follow. It will not even be particularly oriented towards ERE either for that matter. The world is far to complex to make it possible to say "do exactly this for the next 60 years and you'll be fine". The suggestion of the dogs is just a way for newbies to get acquainted with individual stock investing. It's not an attempt to beat the market and it's not guarantee of the future. I'd recommend those who want to spend the minimum amount of time thinking about investing and managing to use the Permanent Portfolio. Read Fail Safe Investing by Harry Browne and the Crawling Road forums. It requires more effort than a Vanguard index fund, but I think this is the very least one can get away with. I think in general, reading these will be a good idea http://earlyretirementextreme.com/startup-curriculum-for-finance-economics-investing.html These are for paper-assets. I believe one should at least semi-skilled in one's form of income. Many seem to prefer real estate/land lording. If you have 50k and your annual expenses are 5k, you have too little. You need 25-33 times your annual expenses in invested assets, so 125-166k, or you'll eventually run out of money. No way are the dogs going to give you 18%/year (did they ever even do that?!) ... count on 3% after inflation or maybe 6% at present inflation levels. Government bonds are very risky right now. Please do read the Fail Safe Investing book at the very minimum before you start placing broker orders. The main point of chapter 7 was to point out a few limits of the "science" of investing. There is NO science. If someone says the answer is 5.67, they're lying or they don't know what they're talking about. If I say five years, it really means 4-6 (once you account for various uncertainties). When it comes to investing, there are significant fudge factors involved. You should focus on typical ranges or values. Nothing is exact. @hellofreedom – I make no recommendations of specific investment methods in the book. I find that people have widely different ideas about what they’re comfortable with. It depends a lot on their emotional temperament AND their intellectual preferences. While people here generally agree on their savings goals, etc. they tend to disagree a lot on their investment methods.

Being asked to give a general prescription of what people should invest in is almost like being asked to give a general prescription for what makes people happy.

The INV book will not solve this problem and it will not provide a specific plan for anyone to follow. It will not even be particularly oriented towards ERE either for that matter. The world is far to complex to make it possible to say “do exactly this for the next 60 years and you’ll be fine”.

The suggestion of the dogs is just a way for newbies to get acquainted with individual stock investing. It’s not an attempt to beat the market and it’s not guarantee of the future.

I’d recommend those who want to spend the minimum amount of time thinking about investing and managing to use the Permanent Portfolio. Read Fail Safe Investing by Harry Browne and the Crawling Road forums. It requires more effort than a Vanguard index fund, but I think this is the very least one can get away with.

I think in general, reading these will be a good idea http://earlyretirementextreme.com/startup-curriculum-for-finance-economics-investing.html

These are for paper-assets. I believe one should at least semi-skilled in one’s form of income. Many seem to prefer real estate/land lording.

If you have 50k and your annual expenses are 5k, you have too little. You need 25-33 times your annual expenses in invested assets, so 125-166k, or you’ll eventually run out of money. No way are the dogs going to give you 18%/year (did they ever even do that?!) … count on 3% after inflation or maybe 6% at present inflation levels. Government bonds are very risky right now. Please do read the Fail Safe Investing book at the very minimum before you start placing broker orders.

The main point of chapter 7 was to point out a few limits of the “science” of investing. There is NO science. If someone says the answer is 5.67, they’re lying or they don’t know what they’re talking about. If I say five years, it really means 4-6 (once you account for various uncertainties). When it comes to investing, there are significant fudge factors involved. You should focus on typical ranges or values. Nothing is exact.

]]> By: hellofreedom http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-14-investing-for-early-retiremen.html/comment-page-1#comment-26398 hellofreedom Tue, 27 Sep 2011 06:13:54 +0000 http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=1129#comment-26398 Congratulations on a continually great blog. And certainly worthy of a write up on Amazon! As a fan of Tom Hodgkison's 'How to be free' and 'The Idler' (I'm from the UK) I found a link there to your book that's been nothing short of an inspiration. As someone who spent their twenties squirreling away cash as a low consumer and maker of things from bread to shampoo to a life spent in thrift shops, I've been frugal enough to tuck away a princely sum at the very extreme end of ones salary - around 80% through labour alone with zero investing. So your book comes at a most auspicious time! With regard to the investment book you're working on I see it as a very welcome addition to the next practical stage for the ERE'r that has accumulated cash and garnered self-sustainable skills, yet may lack prudent investment ones. While your book has been quite brilliant, a quandary of sorts has arisen that would prevent one from taking things further to the next level. If I understand correctly the investment methodology outlined in the book harnesses stocks (the Dogs of the Dow in this case) paying ones expenses each month with their dividend cheques, and a portion of savings in bonds would compound each year- perhaps with any surplace dividends not spent on expenses going into bonds for futher growth? My ultimate doubt is what percentage of net worth the ERE person would ideally put into a Dogs strategy? A quick look at 'Dogs of the Dow.com', posits that the US 'Hennessy Balanced Fund' puts half of its assets into the Dogs of the Dow and half into Treasury Bills. The 'Payden & Rygel Growth and Income Fund' invests half of its assets in the Dogs and half in the stocks which make up the S&P 500 index. Lastly the 'Dogs of the Market Fund' places half of its assets in the Dogs and the other half in other high yielding stocks. By my layman reckoning, placing no more than half of ones net worth into the dogs would be a prudent choice. Since it's been about 5 years of manual labour on my behalf, according to the ERE manifesto (we could call it that ;) ) this means I'm reaching a critical stage anytime now :) Providing one carries on their frugal existence of low cost living, transportation etc, with 50k GBP (4x my annual salary) I'm curious to know if an ERE blueprint might look something like this? : 20k- returning 18% historical Dogs avge = 5,000 GBP per annum (cover expenses) 15k- Narrowboat/RV purchase (narrowboats to live on are widely available- albeit a little pricer than RV's- moored on Britains canals) 15k- government bonds Incidently, how did you arrive at the figure five for early retirement? Why not four, or six years? Out of interest, do you rent a space in your trailer park, or do you just park up somewhere? If the former I'm begining to see a colony of ERE'rs in the Bay area anytime shortly! Surely not a bad vision at all. If there's is anything I can do to futher your cause in the UK in anyway please do let me know. Many thanks! Mark Congratulations on a continually great blog. And certainly worthy of a write up on Amazon!
As a fan of Tom Hodgkison’s ‘How to be free’ and ‘The Idler’ (I’m from the UK) I found a link there to your book that’s been nothing short of an inspiration. As someone who spent their twenties squirreling away cash as a low consumer and maker of things from bread to shampoo to a life spent in thrift shops, I’ve been frugal enough to tuck away a princely sum at the very extreme end of ones salary – around 80% through labour alone with zero investing. So your book comes at a most auspicious time!
With regard to the investment book you’re working on I see it as a very welcome addition to the next practical stage for the ERE’r that has accumulated cash and garnered self-sustainable skills, yet may lack prudent investment ones.
While your book has been quite brilliant, a quandary of sorts has arisen that would prevent one from taking things further to the next level.
If I understand correctly the investment methodology outlined in the book harnesses stocks (the Dogs of the Dow in this case) paying ones expenses each month with their dividend cheques, and a portion of savings in bonds would compound each year- perhaps with any surplace dividends not spent on expenses going into bonds for futher growth? My ultimate doubt is what percentage of net worth the ERE person would ideally put into a Dogs strategy?
A quick look at ‘Dogs of the Dow.com’, posits that the US ‘Hennessy Balanced Fund’ puts half of its assets into the Dogs of the Dow and half into Treasury Bills. The ‘Payden & Rygel Growth and Income Fund’ invests half of its assets in the Dogs and half in the stocks which make up the S&P 500 index. Lastly the ‘Dogs of the Market Fund’ places half of its assets in the Dogs and the other half in other high yielding stocks.
By my layman reckoning, placing no more than half of ones net worth into the dogs would be a prudent choice.
Since it’s been about 5 years of manual labour on my behalf, according to the ERE manifesto (we could call it that ;) ) this means I’m reaching a critical stage anytime now :) Providing one carries on their frugal existence of low cost living, transportation etc, with 50k GBP (4x my annual salary) I’m curious to know if an ERE blueprint might look something like this? :

20k- returning 18% historical Dogs avge = 5,000 GBP per annum (cover expenses)

15k- Narrowboat/RV purchase (narrowboats to live on are widely available- albeit a little pricer than RV’s- moored on Britains canals)

15k- government bonds

Incidently, how did you arrive at the figure five for early retirement? Why not four, or six years?

Out of interest, do you rent a space in your trailer park, or do you just park up somewhere? If the former I’m begining to see a colony of ERE’rs in the Bay area anytime shortly! Surely not a bad vision at all.

If there’s is anything I can do to futher your cause in the UK in anyway please do let me know.

Many thanks!

Mark

]]> By: Dylan http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-14-investing-for-early-retiremen.html/comment-page-1#comment-25718 Dylan Wed, 14 Sep 2011 19:40:40 +0000 http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=1129#comment-25718 “I know market timing is not a good idea”.. comments like this just make me laugh. Why is it not a good idea? Because the money managers and the monkeys in suits on CNBC say so? I “time” the markets for a living every day, I am a HFT of equities and currencies, the most volatile and largest markets in the world. This is the one area where I really disagree with Jacob on as well. You cannot buy stocks off of price and earnings ratios, book values, or other frivolous things like that. 75% of trading volume is computerized in the NYSE as of last year. If you want to buy and hold or buy “undervalued companies” then you are gambling with your money. If you want to trade learn about correlations, technical analysis, candlestick analysis, pattern recognition, spread trading, and if you really want to make money figure out which of the thousands of arbitrage opportunities you can capitalize on in the trading day. The days of picking undervalued stocks, holding them until they match their book value, or having money stops and targets doesn’t work and won’t work in the world of High Frequency Robotic trading and worldwide access to markets. Technical analysis with in line with the fundamentals is the only way. Technical entries and exits only… I should know, as a 21 year old working in a hedge fund since the age of 18, I’ve had to learn quick and thoroughly. “I know market timing is not a good idea”.. comments like this just make me laugh. Why is it not a good idea? Because the money managers and the monkeys in suits on CNBC say so? I “time” the markets for a living every day, I am a HFT of equities and currencies, the most volatile and largest markets in the world. This is the one area where I really disagree with Jacob on as well. You cannot buy stocks off of price and earnings ratios, book values, or other frivolous things like that. 75% of trading volume is computerized in the NYSE as of last year. If you want to buy and hold or buy “undervalued companies” then you are gambling with your money. If you want to trade learn about correlations, technical analysis, candlestick analysis, pattern recognition, spread trading, and if you really want to make money figure out which of the thousands of arbitrage opportunities you can capitalize on in the trading day. The days of picking undervalued stocks, holding them until they match their book value, or having money stops and targets doesn’t work and won’t work in the world of High Frequency Robotic trading and worldwide access to markets. Technical analysis with in line with the fundamentals is the only way. Technical entries and exits only… I should know, as a 21 year old working in a hedge fund since the age of 18, I’ve had to learn quick and thoroughly.

]]> By: Fred http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-14-investing-for-early-retiremen.html/comment-page-1#comment-23594 Fred Mon, 11 Jul 2011 22:12:28 +0000 http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=1129#comment-23594 I believe someone should note that Benjamin Graham's final advice for the individual investor was to use index funds, as noted by his most successful student Warren Buffet. Times have changed even though some fund manager's like to mention The Intelligent Investor as their bible I am dubious that they are really following the book- so should we? Fred I believe someone should note that Benjamin Graham’s final advice for the individual investor was to use index funds, as noted by his most successful student Warren Buffet. Times have changed even though some fund manager’s like to mention The Intelligent Investor as their bible I am dubious that they are really following the book- so should we? Fred

]]> By: Jacob http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-14-investing-for-early-retiremen.html/comment-page-1#comment-21883 Jacob Mon, 18 Apr 2011 23:34:42 +0000 http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=1129#comment-21883 @George - My portfolio is up about 150% since the 2009 low. @George – My portfolio is up about 150% since the 2009 low.

]]> By: George http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-14-investing-for-early-retiremen.html/comment-page-1#comment-21880 George Mon, 18 Apr 2011 22:58:28 +0000 http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=1129#comment-21880 Hi Jacob, I see it has been over 2 years since this post. How is the strategy working? Do you have an update for us? George Hi Jacob,

I see it has been over 2 years since this post. How is the strategy working? Do you have an update for us?

George

]]> By: bigato http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-14-investing-for-early-retiremen.html/comment-page-1#comment-20489 bigato Sun, 16 Jan 2011 02:03:26 +0000 http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=1129#comment-20489 Learning it all and doing it all appears to me as being a lot of work of the kind I am not very willing to do. But maybe I change my mind as the savings grow. Learning it all and doing it all appears to me as being a lot of work of the kind I am not very willing to do. But maybe I change my mind as the savings grow.

]]> By: Jacob http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-14-investing-for-early-retiremen.html/comment-page-1#comment-14856 Jacob Wed, 18 Aug 2010 01:25:37 +0000 http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=1129#comment-14856 @jp - It depends on how much money you have to invest. The work is the same, so if you have 100000 to invest, the "compensation" will be 100 times higher than if you have 1000. Another thing to consider is that once learned, it doesn't take a whole lot of effort to use the skill. If you don't like going through reports, etc. earn more money if you have a low amount of assets (most people) or hire a wealth manager if you have a high amount of assets. @jp – It depends on how much money you have to invest. The work is the same, so if you have 100000 to invest, the “compensation” will be 100 times higher than if you have 1000. Another thing to consider is that once learned, it doesn’t take a whole lot of effort to use the skill. If you don’t like going through reports, etc. earn more money if you have a low amount of assets (most people) or hire a wealth manager if you have a high amount of assets.

]]> By: jp http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-14-investing-for-early-retiremen.html/comment-page-1#comment-14851 jp Tue, 17 Aug 2010 22:35:36 +0000 http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=1129#comment-14851 ok, i've put some money away and (though i found your blog through a google search of: "living out of a suitcase"!) I'm liking where you're coming from in terms of investing. however, I wonder, in classic freegan style: what is the return on your investment of TIME? I'm thinking that I could just buy some bonds or whatever and then instead of spending the time to read 10k's and q's (whatever THEY are!) I could just get a part time job! am i wrong? obviously you research when and where you want, but does it pay off that much to know that much about the company? thanks! ok, i’ve put some money away and (though i found your blog through a google search of: “living out of a suitcase”!) I’m liking where you’re coming from in terms of investing. however, I wonder, in classic freegan style: what is the return on your investment of TIME? I’m thinking that I could just buy some bonds or whatever and then instead of spending the time to read 10k’s and q’s (whatever THEY are!) I could just get a part time job! am i wrong? obviously you research when and where you want, but does it pay off that much to know that much about the company? thanks!

]]> By: mingus http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-14-investing-for-early-retiremen.html/comment-page-1#comment-11066 mingus Thu, 29 Apr 2010 02:00:56 +0000 http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=1129#comment-11066 Thank you for the supportive feedback. I checked out the dividend website and I'm learning as much as I can about maintaining my retirement income. At the same time I'm considering more extreme ways of altering my lifestyle to reduce costs. Already I have no TV, cell-phone, I don't eat meat, stopped buying new clothes, grow some of my own food, tap my maple trees, use my two sheep to mow my fields and fertilize my garden, borrow and lend resources with neighbors, drive older cars w/ no payments, visit friends for vacations, and belong to a health food coop. BTW,Jacob-thank you so much for providing this forum! Thank you for the supportive feedback. I checked out the dividend website and I’m learning as much as I can about maintaining my retirement income. At the same time I’m considering more extreme ways of altering my lifestyle to reduce costs. Already I have no TV, cell-phone, I don’t eat meat, stopped buying new clothes, grow some of my own food, tap my maple trees, use my two sheep to mow my fields and fertilize my garden, borrow and lend resources with neighbors, drive older cars w/ no payments, visit friends for vacations, and belong to a health food coop. BTW,Jacob-thank you so much for providing this forum!

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