<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Day trading these days is a hairy business</title>
	<atom:link href="http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-trading-these-days-is-a-hairy-business.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-trading-these-days-is-a-hairy-business.html</link>
	<description>--- a combination of simple living, anticonsumerism, DIY ethics, self-reliance, and applied capitalism</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 25 May 2012 19:02:53 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: gregfokker</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-trading-these-days-is-a-hairy-business.html/comment-page-1#comment-2329</link>
		<dc:creator>gregfokker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 10:11:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=693#comment-2329</guid>
		<description>Kudos on this wonderful blog.  You&#039;ve managed to make explicit many of my unarticulated thoughts and directions.

Platform-wise, do yourself a favor and switch to interactivebrokers.com.  1$ per contract, no minimum.  Trade in any market, any currency, and receive the prevailing rate on multicurrency balances- so when the New Zealand dollar was yielding 8.25%, that was the rate paid out on my NZD balance (even though I live in Canada).  Trades are routed instantly, complex option &amp; future strategies fully supported... like scottrade for grownups.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kudos on this wonderful blog.  You&#8217;ve managed to make explicit many of my unarticulated thoughts and directions.</p>
<p>Platform-wise, do yourself a favor and switch to interactivebrokers.com.  1$ per contract, no minimum.  Trade in any market, any currency, and receive the prevailing rate on multicurrency balances- so when the New Zealand dollar was yielding 8.25%, that was the rate paid out on my NZD balance (even though I live in Canada).  Trades are routed instantly, complex option &amp; future strategies fully supported&#8230; like scottrade for grownups.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: trading stock for dummies</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-trading-these-days-is-a-hairy-business.html/comment-page-1#comment-2234</link>
		<dc:creator>trading stock for dummies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 01:56:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=693#comment-2234</guid>
		<description>The cost to trade at times could really be very high. But i like the information you provided on your blog. Great info and incisive as well</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The cost to trade at times could really be very high. But i like the information you provided on your blog. Great info and incisive as well</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: RetiredAt47</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-trading-these-days-is-a-hairy-business.html/comment-page-1#comment-2233</link>
		<dc:creator>RetiredAt47</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 01:16:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=693#comment-2233</guid>
		<description>So you must be selling covered calls, right?  Otherwise you wouldn&#039;t be getting the dividend.  Anyway, I avoid having to worry about tax ramifications (like whether a dividend is qualified) on my short-term trading by doing it in a Roth IRA.  Of course losses in a retirement account hurt all the more ;-(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So you must be selling covered calls, right?  Otherwise you wouldn&#8217;t be getting the dividend.  Anyway, I avoid having to worry about tax ramifications (like whether a dividend is qualified) on my short-term trading by doing it in a Roth IRA.  Of course losses in a retirement account hurt all the more ;-(</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: The Executioner</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-trading-these-days-is-a-hairy-business.html/comment-page-1#comment-2232</link>
		<dc:creator>The Executioner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 23:24:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=693#comment-2232</guid>
		<description>Yes, market orders fill before limit orders in all cases.  Market orders guarantee execution but not price.  Limit orders guarantee price but not execution.

There are other factors which come into play when you see a print on a stock.  These could have something to do with your broker.  The print that gets listed is shown from all market makers, but your broker may have routed your order to a particular market maker which didn&#039;t have enough volume to fill the order at your price.

If you have ever seen NASDAQ Level 2 quotes in action, you can get an idea of how this works.

Have you ever called your broker and asked them why your order didn&#039;t fill?  Often a broker will be willing to work with their market makers and challenge a fill (or lack thereof).  Or if you are a good customer, they may just give you the fill off their own book in the spirit of keeping the relationship solid.  I wouldn&#039;t challenge an order if you only see a print for the minimum (100 shares of stock or 1 option contract), but if a large execution went through, or if the execution prices remained below your limit price for a longer duration (multiple prints), you can probably make a decent argument that you were due a fill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, market orders fill before limit orders in all cases.  Market orders guarantee execution but not price.  Limit orders guarantee price but not execution.</p>
<p>There are other factors which come into play when you see a print on a stock.  These could have something to do with your broker.  The print that gets listed is shown from all market makers, but your broker may have routed your order to a particular market maker which didn&#8217;t have enough volume to fill the order at your price.</p>
<p>If you have ever seen NASDAQ Level 2 quotes in action, you can get an idea of how this works.</p>
<p>Have you ever called your broker and asked them why your order didn&#8217;t fill?  Often a broker will be willing to work with their market makers and challenge a fill (or lack thereof).  Or if you are a good customer, they may just give you the fill off their own book in the spirit of keeping the relationship solid.  I wouldn&#8217;t challenge an order if you only see a print for the minimum (100 shares of stock or 1 option contract), but if a large execution went through, or if the execution prices remained below your limit price for a longer duration (multiple prints), you can probably make a decent argument that you were due a fill.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jacob</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-trading-these-days-is-a-hairy-business.html/comment-page-1#comment-2226</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 14:41:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=693#comment-2226</guid>
		<description>@Douche - Oi, fixed again. I thought the modern term for idiot was &quot;slow learner&quot; :-P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Douche &#8211; Oi, fixed again. I thought the modern term for idiot was &#8220;slow learner&#8221; <img src='http://earlyretirementextreme.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':-P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Douche</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-trading-these-days-is-a-hairy-business.html/comment-page-1#comment-2221</link>
		<dc:creator>Douche</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 06:13:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=693#comment-2221</guid>
		<description>Jacob, you&#039;re an idiot.  You misspelled it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jacob, you&#8217;re an idiot.  You misspelled it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jacob</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-trading-these-days-is-a-hairy-business.html/comment-page-1#comment-2218</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 01:20:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=693#comment-2218</guid>
		<description>@Executioner - I did not know that market orders took priority. I&#039;ve actually seen a situation with a limit of ,say, 10.00, where the ticker dropped to 9.99. I assumed the trader missed it, but if market orders execute first, I could see how it could happen. Would it not have been smarter for the trader to match the 10.00 seller up with the market order buyer instead? My guess is that the 10.00 order arrived slow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Executioner &#8211; I did not know that market orders took priority. I&#8217;ve actually seen a situation with a limit of ,say, 10.00, where the ticker dropped to 9.99. I assumed the trader missed it, but if market orders execute first, I could see how it could happen. Would it not have been smarter for the trader to match the 10.00 seller up with the market order buyer instead? My guess is that the 10.00 order arrived slow.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: The Executioner</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-trading-these-days-is-a-hairy-business.html/comment-page-1#comment-2217</link>
		<dc:creator>The Executioner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 01:12:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=693#comment-2217</guid>
		<description>Just because you see a print at 10 doesn&#039;t mean your open order for 10 was due a fill.  Market makers are obligated to fill limit orders first in, first out, after market orders.  If you have many buyers wishing to fill a large number of shares (say 100,000) all at 10, but only one seller wishing to part with 100 shares at 10, you will see a print at 10.  But once that sell order executes (for a finite number of shares), the higher ask prices of other sellers will bring the price back up in times of heavy demand (when buyers&#039; market orders take higher priority on the market maker&#039;s book than the buy limit orders waiting in line).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just because you see a print at 10 doesn&#8217;t mean your open order for 10 was due a fill.  Market makers are obligated to fill limit orders first in, first out, after market orders.  If you have many buyers wishing to fill a large number of shares (say 100,000) all at 10, but only one seller wishing to part with 100 shares at 10, you will see a print at 10.  But once that sell order executes (for a finite number of shares), the higher ask prices of other sellers will bring the price back up in times of heavy demand (when buyers&#8217; market orders take higher priority on the market maker&#8217;s book than the buy limit orders waiting in line).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jacob</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-trading-these-days-is-a-hairy-business.html/comment-page-1#comment-2216</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 00:31:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=693#comment-2216</guid>
		<description>@douche - Fixed :-)

@DGI - Uh hesitating? That&#039;s what I have been doing for the past year or so, building a dividend portfolio. Day trading was obviously a wrong choice of words (like explicative :-D ). Actually, technically, it was wrong too. I did not buy and sell the same security on the same day. However, I did have to buy the options today before they expired, so the increase in blood pressure would be similar to day trading

What I do is to  set a sell price for my dividend paying stocks typically defined by them not paying very much in dividends anymore. For instance WFC now pays 3.5% while GE pays over 5%. Once the stock gets closer to the sell price I write a call on it. If it does not meet the call, I get a little extra income (this can be up to 20% on top of the dividend a year!). If it meet the call, I got it sold.

So why did I roll it out?

Now it may happen that something unforeseen happens in the meantime (like the government deciding to bail out the market -- I&#039;m not good at predicting these rescues, this is the second time around when things were going great (for prudent me) until the government decides to mess with it) which causes me to reevaluate the underlying stock (the financial sector just got 15% better in two days!). 

Thus I had to get rid of the short call options. The most profitable way to do that is really to sit and stare at the ticker with the finger on the trigger. It is something that has to be done (I seldomly do it. Last time was June 2007 as far as I remember). So no, I don&#039;t rely on day trading other than to save maybe fifty bucks (although with today&#039;s volatility it would have been much more - around $400 or so) instead of just going for the market price at a random time of the day. 

Derivatives are simply a tool, but it&#039;s not my main tool.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@douche &#8211; Fixed <img src='http://earlyretirementextreme.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>@DGI &#8211; Uh hesitating? That&#8217;s what I have been doing for the past year or so, building a dividend portfolio. Day trading was obviously a wrong choice of words (like explicative <img src='http://earlyretirementextreme.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':-D' class='wp-smiley' />  ). Actually, technically, it was wrong too. I did not buy and sell the same security on the same day. However, I did have to buy the options today before they expired, so the increase in blood pressure would be similar to day trading</p>
<p>What I do is to  set a sell price for my dividend paying stocks typically defined by them not paying very much in dividends anymore. For instance WFC now pays 3.5% while GE pays over 5%. Once the stock gets closer to the sell price I write a call on it. If it does not meet the call, I get a little extra income (this can be up to 20% on top of the dividend a year!). If it meet the call, I got it sold.</p>
<p>So why did I roll it out?</p>
<p>Now it may happen that something unforeseen happens in the meantime (like the government deciding to bail out the market &#8212; I&#8217;m not good at predicting these rescues, this is the second time around when things were going great (for prudent me) until the government decides to mess with it) which causes me to reevaluate the underlying stock (the financial sector just got 15% better in two days!). </p>
<p>Thus I had to get rid of the short call options. The most profitable way to do that is really to sit and stare at the ticker with the finger on the trigger. It is something that has to be done (I seldomly do it. Last time was June 2007 as far as I remember). So no, I don&#8217;t rely on day trading other than to save maybe fifty bucks (although with today&#8217;s volatility it would have been much more &#8211; around $400 or so) instead of just going for the market price at a random time of the day. </p>
<p>Derivatives are simply a tool, but it&#8217;s not my main tool.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: kd</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-trading-these-days-is-a-hairy-business.html/comment-page-1#comment-2213</link>
		<dc:creator>kd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 21:08:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=693#comment-2213</guid>
		<description>I use Google Finance and Zecco for trading and am as you describe a generous person, always selling at market.

I do this because I never know at what price it will execute and I think that I might not be able to bet rid of the stock. How do you decide your limit price when selling?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I use Google Finance and Zecco for trading and am as you describe a generous person, always selling at market.</p>
<p>I do this because I never know at what price it will execute and I think that I might not be able to bet rid of the stock. How do you decide your limit price when selling?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dividend Growth Investor</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-trading-these-days-is-a-hairy-business.html/comment-page-1#comment-2211</link>
		<dc:creator>Dividend Growth Investor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 18:09:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=693#comment-2211</guid>
		<description>Lol you are hesitating whether or not to build a stream of dividend income by investing in stocks and yet you daytrade derivatives based off financials ( the above mentioned option trade)

Good luck! Let the wind blow in your way!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lol you are hesitating whether or not to build a stream of dividend income by investing in stocks and yet you daytrade derivatives based off financials ( the above mentioned option trade)</p>
<p>Good luck! Let the wind blow in your way!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Douche</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/day-trading-these-days-is-a-hairy-business.html/comment-page-1#comment-2209</link>
		<dc:creator>Douche</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 16:49:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=693#comment-2209</guid>
		<description>explicative (adj.)
Serving to explain; explanatory.

expletive (n.)
An exclamation or oath, especially one that is profane, vulgar, or obscene.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>explicative (adj.)<br />
Serving to explain; explanatory.</p>
<p>expletive (n.)<br />
An exclamation or oath, especially one that is profane, vulgar, or obscene.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

