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	<title>Comments on: Dear Graduate, do you want to retire in five years?</title>
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	<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/dear-graduate-do-you-want-to-retire-in-five-years.html</link>
	<description>--- a combination of simple living, anticonsumerism, DIY ethics, self-reliance, and applied capitalism</description>
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		<title>By: skunk1980</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/dear-graduate-do-you-want-to-retire-in-five-years.html/comment-page-1#comment-16087</link>
		<dc:creator>skunk1980</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2010 05:38:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=244#comment-16087</guid>
		<description>You might like this:

http://www.collegescholarships.org/research/student-loans/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You might like this:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.collegescholarships.org/research/student-loans/" rel="nofollow">http://www.collegescholarships.org/research/student-loans/</a></p>
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		<title>By: George (the other one)</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/dear-graduate-do-you-want-to-retire-in-five-years.html/comment-page-1#comment-16023</link>
		<dc:creator>George (the other one)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Sep 2010 02:14:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=244#comment-16023</guid>
		<description>750 a month is fairly trivial to do here in Wisconsin. Right now I am renting a 1000sq foot apartment for $325, pay $120 per month for food, $80 per month for gas, $25 per month for car insurance, $35 per month for energy, $80 per month for beer, and $100 per month for full health insurance plus $40-$60 misc spending on stuff like disc golf, dining, etc. 

Thats $825 per month without living with a roommate, having a car, and keeping a fridge full of beer. The least I&#039;ve ever lived on was $300 in feb 2009. That was $212 for the apartment, $55 for food, $5 for Internet, $30 for heat and electricity, and I didn&#039;t spend any other money. Me and my roommate kept it a cool 34 degrees all winter long because that place was horribly insulated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>750 a month is fairly trivial to do here in Wisconsin. Right now I am renting a 1000sq foot apartment for $325, pay $120 per month for food, $80 per month for gas, $25 per month for car insurance, $35 per month for energy, $80 per month for beer, and $100 per month for full health insurance plus $40-$60 misc spending on stuff like disc golf, dining, etc. </p>
<p>Thats $825 per month without living with a roommate, having a car, and keeping a fridge full of beer. The least I&#8217;ve ever lived on was $300 in feb 2009. That was $212 for the apartment, $55 for food, $5 for Internet, $30 for heat and electricity, and I didn&#8217;t spend any other money. Me and my roommate kept it a cool 34 degrees all winter long because that place was horribly insulated.</p>
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		<title>By: btbw2380</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/dear-graduate-do-you-want-to-retire-in-five-years.html/comment-page-1#comment-16020</link>
		<dc:creator>btbw2380</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Sep 2010 22:46:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=244#comment-16020</guid>
		<description>I find all this enjoyable to read but retirement as it is commonly thought of it is not.  Part time work, contract work, working at something you enjoy, not needing to be a slave to your work - common word throughout is work!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find all this enjoyable to read but retirement as it is commonly thought of it is not.  Part time work, contract work, working at something you enjoy, not needing to be a slave to your work &#8211; common word throughout is work!</p>
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		<title>By: jc</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/dear-graduate-do-you-want-to-retire-in-five-years.html/comment-page-1#comment-16018</link>
		<dc:creator>jc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Sep 2010 22:38:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=244#comment-16018</guid>
		<description>That certainly will work, if ER Extreme is the goal.  My goal was F*** You money, that is Finacial independence.  I got there at around 38.

1.	Find a career you like and are good at.  If it is one where you generate revenue for your employer you’ll be able to work when you want.
2.	Save 50% of your money.
3.	Invest in low cost index funds.  Everybody believes they can “beat the market.”  I certainly did and spent decades and lost mucho trying.  I’d have been better off putting it into cookie jars.  But a 50% savings rate makes up for a multitude of sins.
4.	Spend the remaining 50% however you like, but don’t worry about keeping up with the Joneses or anybody else.

Doing this I:

1.	Quit my job at 38, except for a little consulting, until I decided to accept another job when I was 45.
2.	Quit that job 5 years later to take a summer off.
3.	Got laid off from the next one when I was 51.  Enjoyed life for four years until a guy that used to work for me persuaded me to come work for him.
4.	Still doing that and enjoying it at 59.  Debating on when to hang it up again.  Permanently, perhaps or maybe not.  


Be clear on your goal.  Seems to me the whole point of FI is not retirement but the freedom to choose what you want to do when you want to do it.  Sometimes, at least for me, that requires accepting pay.  ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That certainly will work, if ER Extreme is the goal.  My goal was F*** You money, that is Finacial independence.  I got there at around 38.</p>
<p>1.	Find a career you like and are good at.  If it is one where you generate revenue for your employer you’ll be able to work when you want.<br />
2.	Save 50% of your money.<br />
3.	Invest in low cost index funds.  Everybody believes they can “beat the market.”  I certainly did and spent decades and lost mucho trying.  I’d have been better off putting it into cookie jars.  But a 50% savings rate makes up for a multitude of sins.<br />
4.	Spend the remaining 50% however you like, but don’t worry about keeping up with the Joneses or anybody else.</p>
<p>Doing this I:</p>
<p>1.	Quit my job at 38, except for a little consulting, until I decided to accept another job when I was 45.<br />
2.	Quit that job 5 years later to take a summer off.<br />
3.	Got laid off from the next one when I was 51.  Enjoyed life for four years until a guy that used to work for me persuaded me to come work for him.<br />
4.	Still doing that and enjoying it at 59.  Debating on when to hang it up again.  Permanently, perhaps or maybe not.  </p>
<p>Be clear on your goal.  Seems to me the whole point of FI is not retirement but the freedom to choose what you want to do when you want to do it.  Sometimes, at least for me, that requires accepting pay.  ?</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/dear-graduate-do-you-want-to-retire-in-five-years.html/comment-page-1#comment-15995</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Sep 2010 04:43:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=244#comment-15995</guid>
		<description>@Wannebe ERE - Two years ago, when the post was written, I had a fulltime job. I quit in March 2009.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Wannebe ERE &#8211; Two years ago, when the post was written, I had a fulltime job. I quit in March 2009.</p>
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		<title>By: Wannabe ERE</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/dear-graduate-do-you-want-to-retire-in-five-years.html/comment-page-1#comment-15990</link>
		<dc:creator>Wannabe ERE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Sep 2010 04:00:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=244#comment-15990</guid>
		<description>You really have a full-time job? Or were you joking?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You really have a full-time job? Or were you joking?</p>
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		<title>By: Does Increased Wealth and Income Equal Lifestyle Inflation? &#124; My Journey to Millions</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/dear-graduate-do-you-want-to-retire-in-five-years.html/comment-page-1#comment-12840</link>
		<dc:creator>Does Increased Wealth and Income Equal Lifestyle Inflation? &#124; My Journey to Millions</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 05:02:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=244#comment-12840</guid>
		<description>[...] in spending due directly to the increase of income.  There are plenty of posts on how to avoid it, why you should avoid it, or there are those that actually appreciate lifestyle inflation (to a point).  Like most things [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in spending due directly to the increase of income.  There are plenty of posts on how to avoid it, why you should avoid it, or there are those that actually appreciate lifestyle inflation (to a point).  Like most things [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/dear-graduate-do-you-want-to-retire-in-five-years.html/comment-page-1#comment-1402</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 23:50:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=244#comment-1402</guid>
		<description>@mjukr - However, FundX has a very good track record. This suggests that the &quot;market for mutual funds&quot; is NOT efficient - and THAT is very interesting. It also seems somewhat reasonable that mutual fund investors are not analyzing their holdings to the same degree that analysts of individual stocks do. In that sense FundX will work until someone removes this inefficiency afterwhich yields will return to normal (minus the fee).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@mjukr &#8211; However, FundX has a very good track record. This suggests that the &#8220;market for mutual funds&#8221; is NOT efficient &#8211; and THAT is very interesting. It also seems somewhat reasonable that mutual fund investors are not analyzing their holdings to the same degree that analysts of individual stocks do. In that sense FundX will work until someone removes this inefficiency afterwhich yields will return to normal (minus the fee).</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/dear-graduate-do-you-want-to-retire-in-five-years.html/comment-page-1#comment-1399</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:45:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=244#comment-1399</guid>
		<description>@mjukr - It&#039;s a black box based on technical trading of funds. This already contains three concepts that I don&#039;t like, personally :-) But again, investing is an extremely personal enterprise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@mjukr &#8211; It&#8217;s a black box based on technical trading of funds. This already contains three concepts that I don&#8217;t like, personally <img src='http://earlyretirementextreme.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  But again, investing is an extremely personal enterprise.</p>
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		<title>By: mjukr</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/dear-graduate-do-you-want-to-retire-in-five-years.html/comment-page-1#comment-1396</link>
		<dc:creator>mjukr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:53:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=244#comment-1396</guid>
		<description>What do you think of NoLoad FundX?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What do you think of NoLoad FundX?</p>
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		<title>By: Rosie</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/dear-graduate-do-you-want-to-retire-in-five-years.html/comment-page-1#comment-1369</link>
		<dc:creator>Rosie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 14:23:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=244#comment-1369</guid>
		<description>Great article, Jacob; as a professional student/academic :), this makes lots of sense.  Just wanted to point out that you allude to the one useful skill not usually identified for recent graduates regardless of their field, the one skill that will serve them well given your advice: the ability to research and know how to learn.  That skill has saved me time and again as I have moved toward self-sufficiency.  Despite the expensive degrees, most graduates don&#039;t understand that this is really the education they&#039;re getting: comfort with and ability to find resources, evaluate them effectively, synthesize the information in them, and put the techniques into practice.  It sounds simple, but this is often the barrier faced by those with a lot less education.

Just a small plug for the value of a degree in English :) (or anything else generally seen as non-commodifiable)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article, Jacob; as a professional student/academic <img src='http://earlyretirementextreme.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> , this makes lots of sense.  Just wanted to point out that you allude to the one useful skill not usually identified for recent graduates regardless of their field, the one skill that will serve them well given your advice: the ability to research and know how to learn.  That skill has saved me time and again as I have moved toward self-sufficiency.  Despite the expensive degrees, most graduates don&#8217;t understand that this is really the education they&#8217;re getting: comfort with and ability to find resources, evaluate them effectively, synthesize the information in them, and put the techniques into practice.  It sounds simple, but this is often the barrier faced by those with a lot less education.</p>
<p>Just a small plug for the value of a degree in English <img src='http://earlyretirementextreme.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  (or anything else generally seen as non-commodifiable)</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/dear-graduate-do-you-want-to-retire-in-five-years.html/comment-page-1#comment-1365</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 00:39:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=244#comment-1365</guid>
		<description>@mjukr - it depends on how you want to do it ... index? ETF? mutual funds? or DIY? The former three seem no different than picking another investment goal. For the later, I&#039;d start very basic. I still recommend joining aaii.com or at least reading their website (they have a starters guide). Also go to hussmanfunds.com and read his weekly commentary. For books, Graham and Dodd, and Pabrai.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@mjukr &#8211; it depends on how you want to do it &#8230; index? ETF? mutual funds? or DIY? The former three seem no different than picking another investment goal. For the later, I&#8217;d start very basic. I still recommend joining aaii.com or at least reading their website (they have a starters guide). Also go to hussmanfunds.com and read his weekly commentary. For books, Graham and Dodd, and Pabrai.</p>
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		<title>By: mjukr</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/dear-graduate-do-you-want-to-retire-in-five-years.html/comment-page-1#comment-1358</link>
		<dc:creator>mjukr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 15:35:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=244#comment-1358</guid>
		<description>@Jacob - What books/websites/other sources would you recommend to get started with investing for income?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jacob &#8211; What books/websites/other sources would you recommend to get started with investing for income?</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/dear-graduate-do-you-want-to-retire-in-five-years.html/comment-page-1#comment-1356</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 15:04:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=244#comment-1356</guid>
		<description>@claire - When I excited grad school, I lived on about $500. $400 to rent a room, $75 for food, walked to work, no life insurance (no dependents), health insurance (included in job), clothes bought at thriftstores (~$0).  When I moved together with DW, it changed to $550, $330 for the rent (each), about $75 in utilities, own water well, food increased at bit, car maintenance was added, no cable, furniture was thrift/used/free. DW paid off $10k in credit card debt over two years while she was on a grad student salary(!) 

It is fully doable. The only question is whether one wants to do it. In my experience most people would want to spend a little more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@claire &#8211; When I excited grad school, I lived on about $500. $400 to rent a room, $75 for food, walked to work, no life insurance (no dependents), health insurance (included in job), clothes bought at thriftstores (~$0).  When I moved together with DW, it changed to $550, $330 for the rent (each), about $75 in utilities, own water well, food increased at bit, car maintenance was added, no cable, furniture was thrift/used/free. DW paid off $10k in credit card debt over two years while she was on a grad student salary(!) </p>
<p>It is fully doable. The only question is whether one wants to do it. In my experience most people would want to spend a little more.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/dear-graduate-do-you-want-to-retire-in-five-years.html/comment-page-1#comment-1355</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 15:00:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=244#comment-1355</guid>
		<description>@ claire
I&#039;m a new graduate, with no student loans and no consumer debt.  My parent&#039;s gave me a little but I worked the rest.
I don&#039;t do this, but I could and here&#039;s how.

Rent a two bedroom, utilities included, apartment for $600 and get a roommate - $300
BTW it&#039;s within walking distance of my job and a grocery store, it&#039;s also on the metro bus line so for $3 round trip I can get anywhere in the city given enough time.
$6 a day for groceries - $180
10 trips a month on the bus - $30
$50 for the house necessities for cleaning etc.
$30 for a Sprint SERO plan (500 minutes, unlimited text and data, nights @ 7, &amp; PCS2PCS)
Leaving $160 for whatever else that month.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ claire<br />
I&#8217;m a new graduate, with no student loans and no consumer debt.  My parent&#8217;s gave me a little but I worked the rest.<br />
I don&#8217;t do this, but I could and here&#8217;s how.</p>
<p>Rent a two bedroom, utilities included, apartment for $600 and get a roommate &#8211; $300<br />
BTW it&#8217;s within walking distance of my job and a grocery store, it&#8217;s also on the metro bus line so for $3 round trip I can get anywhere in the city given enough time.<br />
$6 a day for groceries &#8211; $180<br />
10 trips a month on the bus &#8211; $30<br />
$50 for the house necessities for cleaning etc.<br />
$30 for a Sprint SERO plan (500 minutes, unlimited text and data, nights @ 7, &amp; PCS2PCS)<br />
Leaving $160 for whatever else that month.</p>
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		<title>By: claire</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/dear-graduate-do-you-want-to-retire-in-five-years.html/comment-page-1#comment-1348</link>
		<dc:creator>claire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 07:50:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=244#comment-1348</guid>
		<description>patrick - how on earth are you supposed to live on 750 per month as a new graduate, wouldnt someone who is earning a salary of 60k as a graduate have student loans etc, and where will they live - a cave? 

come on guys get real - i am all for extreme early retirement but lets keep it realistic otherwise credibility falls away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>patrick &#8211; how on earth are you supposed to live on 750 per month as a new graduate, wouldnt someone who is earning a salary of 60k as a graduate have student loans etc, and where will they live &#8211; a cave? </p>
<p>come on guys get real &#8211; i am all for extreme early retirement but lets keep it realistic otherwise credibility falls away.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/dear-graduate-do-you-want-to-retire-in-five-years.html/comment-page-1#comment-1336</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 00:54:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=244#comment-1336</guid>
		<description>@executioner - Actually I have two jobs :-). A full time job and a (steady) contracting job where I can set my own hours. 

BTW I don&#039;t think i 35-40 years is arbitrary - I think it is exactly measured out to extract the maximum total productivity from the aggregate workforce. 

@all - in terms of how to invest during those five years, clueless or blind stock investing is not the best option. After all, one might buy directly into a declining market and given that five years is shorter than a business cycle, one should think more like a retiree already and seek a very low beta the closer one gets to retirement keeping in mind that it is very close already. That was a long sentence :p</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@executioner &#8211; Actually I have two jobs <img src='http://earlyretirementextreme.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> . A full time job and a (steady) contracting job where I can set my own hours. </p>
<p>BTW I don&#8217;t think i 35-40 years is arbitrary &#8211; I think it is exactly measured out to extract the maximum total productivity from the aggregate workforce. </p>
<p>@all &#8211; in terms of how to invest during those five years, clueless or blind stock investing is not the best option. After all, one might buy directly into a declining market and given that five years is shorter than a business cycle, one should think more like a retiree already and seek a very low beta the closer one gets to retirement keeping in mind that it is very close already. That was a long sentence :p</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/dear-graduate-do-you-want-to-retire-in-five-years.html/comment-page-1#comment-1335</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 00:42:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=244#comment-1335</guid>
		<description>@thrifty - SOs can be converted. I focused on large recurrent expenses like house, car, and food.

@adfecto - I don&#039;t know of a painless way of posting a table (I&#039;m no Excel wizard). I can give you the math though. The condition you are looking for is 

FV(-PMT,i,n,PV) &gt; (1-PMT)/withdrawal rate, 

where FV is the future value, -PMT=-0.75 (percent of salary saved), i is the interest rate (pick whatever, it almost doesn&#039;t matter, since n is small), n being the number of years - that&#039;s the quantity you&#039;re solving for, the withdrawal rate is 0.04 and 1-PMT=0.25. you&#039;ll recognize the rhs as a perpetuity. If you pick n=5, you do get the 18% you&#039;re talking about and the 8 years required to reach 25%.

Verily, if you&#039;re not getting any raises, 8 years is the right answer. However, consider getting a raise (probably not that rare during the first five years of your career) without lifestyle inflation, that is, raise PMT on the lhs but keep it constant on the rhs. 

Generally when I talk about savings rates I mean relative to NET income.

$10k will go quite far in the midwest. Over there I spent $6600 a year. Single emergencies are no problem - after all you have six-figure liquid assets that can be replaced by working a bit. The problem is recurring expenses like for instance chronic health problems or a cable subscription.

Adventure, yes, I imagine that I&#039;ll be the captain on the yacht you&#039;re chartering. The sunset will look the same to both of us, only you&#039;ll be the one paying me ;-)

@moneymonk - I think expectations has a lot to do with it. Most people simply don&#039;t see ERE as an attainable option (Did you win the lottery or what?!)

@mjukr - I&#039;d almost say when you reach a level of wealth where market fluctuations have a bigger impact on your wealth than your savings rate, you owe to yourself (or at least your fortune) to learn how to manage it - at least if you&#039;re still working for money at that point. The crossover point is the point where how you manage your money becomes much more important that whatever your savings rate is. Incidentally investing for income is much more &quot;natural&quot; than speculating in capital gains which is what practically all index investors do.

@claire - investment ROI during such a short period will make little difference unless it&#039;s spectacular. 

@patrick - Indeed. I find it harder and harder not to make money. I think people still think of retirement as a period where one has absolutely zero work-related income and spends a lot of money to get entertained. Don&#039;t know about you guys but many of the things I like to do actually pays me as a nice side effect. Maybe to give an example: I was wandering the SF marina (at Pier 39 in case anyone wants detail) the other day with DW and an old friend. So I was pointing out the kind of [sail]boats I&#039;d like to buy someday (24-31&#039; cruisers), whereas F remarked that she would want a powerboat so she could just run it out, anchor it and sunbathe. So F will pay a hefty price for the boat and have major running expenses in terms of diesel. I would be spending my time learning to sail to the point where I could crew on other boats, fix my own boat and perhaps even be hired as an instructor at some point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@thrifty &#8211; SOs can be converted. I focused on large recurrent expenses like house, car, and food.</p>
<p>@adfecto &#8211; I don&#8217;t know of a painless way of posting a table (I&#8217;m no Excel wizard). I can give you the math though. The condition you are looking for is </p>
<p>FV(-PMT,i,n,PV) &gt; (1-PMT)/withdrawal rate, </p>
<p>where FV is the future value, -PMT=-0.75 (percent of salary saved), i is the interest rate (pick whatever, it almost doesn&#8217;t matter, since n is small), n being the number of years &#8211; that&#8217;s the quantity you&#8217;re solving for, the withdrawal rate is 0.04 and 1-PMT=0.25. you&#8217;ll recognize the rhs as a perpetuity. If you pick n=5, you do get the 18% you&#8217;re talking about and the 8 years required to reach 25%.</p>
<p>Verily, if you&#8217;re not getting any raises, 8 years is the right answer. However, consider getting a raise (probably not that rare during the first five years of your career) without lifestyle inflation, that is, raise PMT on the lhs but keep it constant on the rhs. </p>
<p>Generally when I talk about savings rates I mean relative to NET income.</p>
<p>$10k will go quite far in the midwest. Over there I spent $6600 a year. Single emergencies are no problem &#8211; after all you have six-figure liquid assets that can be replaced by working a bit. The problem is recurring expenses like for instance chronic health problems or a cable subscription.</p>
<p>Adventure, yes, I imagine that I&#8217;ll be the captain on the yacht you&#8217;re chartering. The sunset will look the same to both of us, only you&#8217;ll be the one paying me <img src='http://earlyretirementextreme.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>@moneymonk &#8211; I think expectations has a lot to do with it. Most people simply don&#8217;t see ERE as an attainable option (Did you win the lottery or what?!)</p>
<p>@mjukr &#8211; I&#8217;d almost say when you reach a level of wealth where market fluctuations have a bigger impact on your wealth than your savings rate, you owe to yourself (or at least your fortune) to learn how to manage it &#8211; at least if you&#8217;re still working for money at that point. The crossover point is the point where how you manage your money becomes much more important that whatever your savings rate is. Incidentally investing for income is much more &#8220;natural&#8221; than speculating in capital gains which is what practically all index investors do.</p>
<p>@claire &#8211; investment ROI during such a short period will make little difference unless it&#8217;s spectacular. </p>
<p>@patrick &#8211; Indeed. I find it harder and harder not to make money. I think people still think of retirement as a period where one has absolutely zero work-related income and spends a lot of money to get entertained. Don&#8217;t know about you guys but many of the things I like to do actually pays me as a nice side effect. Maybe to give an example: I was wandering the SF marina (at Pier 39 in case anyone wants detail) the other day with DW and an old friend. So I was pointing out the kind of [sail]boats I&#8217;d like to buy someday (24-31&#8242; cruisers), whereas F remarked that she would want a powerboat so she could just run it out, anchor it and sunbathe. So F will pay a hefty price for the boat and have major running expenses in terms of diesel. I would be spending my time learning to sail to the point where I could crew on other boats, fix my own boat and perhaps even be hired as an instructor at some point.</p>
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		<title>By: The Executioner</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/dear-graduate-do-you-want-to-retire-in-five-years.html/comment-page-1#comment-1334</link>
		<dc:creator>The Executioner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 00:36:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=244#comment-1334</guid>
		<description>&quot;Retirement&quot; doesn&#039;t necessarily mean the absence of any sort of paid work.  Jacob has a job.  Retirement DOES mean freedom from bondage to an employer.  It&#039;s freedom to choose how you spend your time, instead of feeling obliged to draw an income to meet regular financial obligations (debts, excessive spending, etc).

If graduates followed Jacob&#039;s plan for 5 years, they could then feel free to work (or not) at their pleasure for quite a long time, as long as they were dedicated to keeping costs down.

There is absolutely no reason for disciplined savers to work the 35-45 years that society has arbitrarily assigned to the &quot;pre-retirement&quot; column.  If a graduate is committed to maximizing income and savings while minimizing expenses, 5 years is plenty of time to build a very comfortable stream of lifetime income.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Retirement&#8221; doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean the absence of any sort of paid work.  Jacob has a job.  Retirement DOES mean freedom from bondage to an employer.  It&#8217;s freedom to choose how you spend your time, instead of feeling obliged to draw an income to meet regular financial obligations (debts, excessive spending, etc).</p>
<p>If graduates followed Jacob&#8217;s plan for 5 years, they could then feel free to work (or not) at their pleasure for quite a long time, as long as they were dedicated to keeping costs down.</p>
<p>There is absolutely no reason for disciplined savers to work the 35-45 years that society has arbitrarily assigned to the &#8220;pre-retirement&#8221; column.  If a graduate is committed to maximizing income and savings while minimizing expenses, 5 years is plenty of time to build a very comfortable stream of lifetime income.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://earlyretirementextreme.com/dear-graduate-do-you-want-to-retire-in-five-years.html/comment-page-1#comment-1333</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 20:30:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://earlyretirementextreme.com/?p=244#comment-1333</guid>
		<description>Ahh, guys it&#039;s pretty easy - he&#039;s right.
Use this calculator
http://www.dinkytown.com/java/InvestmentDistribution.html
My assumptions
Graduating salary $60k annually $3k net after taxes per month.
Live on $750 (somehow?), and save $2250.
Annual return 8%, contribute 5 years, 3.1% inflation starting immediately.
It alone will last into your 50s, and I don&#039;t know about the rest of  you but I&#039;m sure I&#039;d figure out a fun way to make some money along the way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahh, guys it&#8217;s pretty easy &#8211; he&#8217;s right.<br />
Use this calculator<br />
<a href="http://www.dinkytown.com/java/InvestmentDistribution.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.dinkytown.com/java/InvestmentDistribution.html</a><br />
My assumptions<br />
Graduating salary $60k annually $3k net after taxes per month.<br />
Live on $750 (somehow?), and save $2250.<br />
Annual return 8%, contribute 5 years, 3.1% inflation starting immediately.<br />
It alone will last into your 50s, and I don&#8217;t know about the rest of  you but I&#8217;m sure I&#8217;d figure out a fun way to make some money along the way.</p>
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