Jacob, great post! I’ve been mulling some of these issues over myself. I think you’re right in your assessment that in the current system we have that we are conditioned to behave as consumers for the benefit of those few who ‘own’ the system (if it can be said that way). As a former high school teacher it is just terrifying the brainwashing young people get in this respect. And I suppose it is interesting that anyone deviates.

But it really seems to me that a lot of those ‘conditioned’ people are about to be forced to change their lifestyles because of economic trouble, the ‘credit crunch,’ the finite nature of fossil fuels, drought, environmental degradation etc. Also, it does seem like more and more people are becoming conscious of this. . . so I’m wondering if we might see some kind of ‘realignment.” And I’m wondering what the heck that would look like?

tlblack

PS–I strive, I strove, I have striven. Sometimes you see I have strived, but I’m not sure if that’s not just an example of people generally using something in a way that is technically incorrect. Your accuracy in English in your posts has really improved since the beginning. I have been wondering about it for a while but have been too shy to mention it (because I don’t want to offend–your English is obviously excellent). I’m curious about how you improved so much because I need to make some headway in my second language. Is it from the frequent practice of writing the blog? If you don’t mind sharing that sometime, I’d love to hear, but I realize it’s a tangent.

Jacob,
–On the topic of your original post:
Yes, you may be right–the changes in the general population are probably a ‘change in kind.’ I have insulated myself so much from mainstream media and popular culture and generally avoid these topics with people that don’t think like me that I have recently started to loose touch with what most people are thinking. It’s kind of disconcerting and weird.

As for the topic of language:
I knew I would make an ass of myself when I finally asked you about the English thing–sorry I didn’t catch your joke! But thanks for answering my question. After seeing your progress and finding out about your method, I’m going to start writing each day in my second language–right now I just speak it everyday and my writing is full of errors. I also know from your writing that there is a visible improvement in about 8 months–at least for you. People vary obviously.

And yeah, struggling with Danish is normal. It may be more pronounced for you if you use English in most of your daily communication with your wife, on-line, to write, to read etc. I still use my native language (English) online, for personal writing, to speak on the phone with family and friends, and sometimes with DH just so he won’t forget :). So I’m keeping it up, but I still have weird ‘holes’ where I have to think for a while about vocab or syntax. Language to me is like a physical skill (think of playing a musical instrument). You can backslide without regular practice, but if you pick it up again, you can play complex tunes again relatively quickly.

I think there are some exceptions to the idea that my financial freedom is someone else’s financial limitation. 1) Totally self-sufficient people living off the grid. 2) People earning royalties.

The parts of my freedom that come from DIY activities and frugality don’t limit anyone else. The part that comes from paying off my house doesn’t limit anyone else either. However, I agree that the parts that come from investments do.

On language–reading a lot can improve your vocabulary and spelling in a way that feels magical (painless). Depending what you read, of course–reading text messages may not help that much!

@vga – I was trying to think of things, but I can’t really think of anything that does not involve a garage. What am I missing? Any ideas?

A separate idea is that while you may find your lifestyle comfortable (as would I, I might add — my living conditions are rather similar, but this is because it’s all I can afford), at least 75% of the US population would not. Most people just don’t see why they shouldn’t buy as much comfort as they can.

Related to this is the fact that, for a couple of decades in the middle of the 20th century, real wages in this country were rather high, and of course everyone feels entitled to the same level of comfort their parents had, if not better. Wages have been stagnant or dropping for the past 20 years, but people still demand the same comfort level, which is eating a greater proportion of their wages.

Two good reasons you have nothing to worry about as far as wage slaves supporting your lifestyle. 😉

@Kym – I think another problem is that many young people moving out feel entitled to the same lifestyle as their parents almost immediately after moving out. Hence they get their own apartment or even house despite being very far from having worked long enough to actually buy such a place. Mortgages and credit makes this possible. I’m aware that real wages are dropping. I do suspect that replicating a 1950s lifestyle would not cost a whole lot: Smaller house, few electronic gadgets/toys, one car(?), no cell phones or cable fees, …

@Debbie M:

My parents were also rather young (okay, my mom was 21, my dad was 31) when I was born, and we didn’t have a really middle-class lifestyle until around the time I was graduating high school, so I never really experienced a modern middle-class lifestyle. This seems to give me an advantage over many others I know at my income level (around $30k at age 28).

Also, I’ve actually mostly got a 1950s lifestyle: small apartment, one car, no cable… I have a cellphone in lieu of a landline (it’s not that much more expensive and long distance is free), so pretty much my only concession to modernity is my broadband connection with associated computer. Oh, and the microwave, but that was a gift anyway. 😉

Jacob, this is one of my favorite entries of those which you’ve written in recent months. I think there is an interrelationship between freedom (as you’ve described it) and sustainability. For example, if everyone follows the advice of a talking head and takes steps to rent out their properties, then we will end up with an overabundance of landlords and a paucity of tenants. Assuming the landlord path is more desirable, it would presumably benefit the existing landlords to limit the freedom of potential renters to join the landlord ranks, so as to ensure the sustainability of the landlord model.

As an aside, the issue of relative freedom is motivation for me to isolate myself from the vast majority of the human race. This conflicts with your thoughts on the ERE housing strategy (shared spaces or inexpensive high-density locations close to services). However, people are apt to express their freedoms in a number of potentially annoying ways. For example, your freedom to play loud music conflicts with my freedom to enjoy the silence. My freedom to observe the world in its natural state conflicts with your freedom to chop down your trees, plant a lawn, and speed off in your SUV, leaving roadkill in your wake. By having my own domain, I hopefully could assert the maximum amount of freedom without infringing on (or being infringed on by) others.

1950’s thru 1970’s lifestyle: (Typical)

3 bd 1-1/2 bth, carport, 1200 sq ft FHA 235 home:
$18,500.00 with $500.00 down/closing costs.
30 yr mortgage @7 or 8%

1970 Chev Caprice Sedan, bells and whistles:
$4,500.00
36 mo bank loan @ 8%

Salary: $10,450 annual, pension, healthcare, life insurance.

Dad as breadwinner, Mom as homemaker.
Jr in 8th grade Sallyanne in 2d grade.

Family vacation to Disneyland via Route 66.

@Jacob: “I do suspect that replicating a 1950s lifestyle would not cost a whole lot: Smaller house, few electronic gadgets/toys, one car(?), no cell phones or cable fees, …”

I included a 50’s 70’s lifestyle for comparison purposes (and I was there so I know what the costs were) for your consideration.

The cost of the home shown above has gone up by at least 200%. The car about 150%. I could not guess the cost of the kids then to now. Dad gets no pension, or other bennies like then. Mom is now a second income, so add a car. Probably not, but now the family would fly to Cancun or the Bahamas instead of going to LA (A no-brainer on that one!).

WOW 35 years makes a hell of a difference!

@Kym, my house was build in 1955! I have the extra car, the computer, the internet connection (best invention since public libraries), CDs, DVDs, frost-free refrigerator, and I’m saving up to get a dishwasher and clothes dryer.

On the other hand, I also have 0 kids instead of 2.5, 0 pets, a xeriscaped yard, an awesome selection of thrift stores, no make-up, a roommate of the opposite gender even though we’re not married (horrors!), and a discount broker–things that were more rare or nonexistent back then but help me make up for my other luxuries.

@Kym–my appology for mispelling your name.
Not Kim, but Kym.
Sorry! 🙂

I don’t think you should be worried about people choosing “the road less travelled” any time soon (if ever). The majority will always take the easy way out, especially if they are “indocrinated” that that’s the right way to live/be.
Nice post! It is almost like taking a class on Philosophy, economics, life and personal finance in one brief session.
I will have to revisit some of the things you said later on.

If you go to work for the government, a degree helps booster your entry-level income by a sizable amount.

For the feds, for instance, a BS/BA essentially guarantees a minimum starting wage of GS-5, a Masters at GS-7, and a PhD at GS-9. If you don’t have a degree, it’s incredibly difficult to start above a GS-4.

In my brief federal employment, I started as GS-5 and exited as GS-11 after 4 years. My mother, who never had a degree but was certainly smart and hard working, did not get above GS-4 after 20 years. I actually started working for the feds at a salary higher than she retired on 3 years earlier.

Hmmmm. . . I think we gained different things through our educations. I had a different purpose. I’ve always felt kind of ‘different’ and my professors really encouraged me to go for it. I didn’t feel at all required to fit into a certain mold–I mean, there were a lot of people that were like what you describe. There always are–but I was encouraged to go my own way. I studied literature in ‘developing’ countries, history and political philosophy–which I could have read on my own, but I had access to people who had been to those places, knew those cultures. I like getting the human perspective of situations and it really helps to have contact with other humans when doing that 🙂

Also, on a grant, I got hooked up with an organization that helped me get contacts for a research project I did in a small African village–I lived out there on my own in a tent for some time and I learned a lot of extremely useful things: ranging from gathering wood and food in a desert climate to the ways in which people’s notions of time differ depending on their context–ie: no electricity, no travel etc. I suppose I could have done that on my own, but it was a fairly dangerous expedition even with contacts and support.

I don’t think I could have gotten that from martial arts or the football team. I agree though, college didn’t make me smarter or more analytical, but it did open my mind to a whole new world of possibilities–it was a major shift. Not that college is a major shift for everyone. I will give you that.

Jacob, you are on a roll.

also, it’s

“I have striven for”.

“Strived” would be used like this: “I strived for”.

But in your sentence you would use: “I have striven for”

I don’t know the names for these verb tenses so that’s the best I can do explanation-wise.

Knowledge used to be locked up in university classrooms – but no longer. It spreads like bird flu with the internet. One can catch it online, or if preferred, in the classroom. How good of an infection depends more on self discipline and maturity, than on the transmission medium.

If someone can learn to live on less, that person can free their mind from some economic worries. Less worry will translate directly to better health. Who doesn’t want to be healthier? Apparently, over 90% out there.

Interesting discussion. I have been studying at university for years and years, and are still studying. It’s sort of a hobby I guess. Though, very time consuming and challenging. Interestingly it has been something that some in the workplace see as legitimate. This means I have been able to take very very long periods of unpaid leave up till now because of the study to study. That time off has helped me last in the job to earn the money and so on and so on ! I don’t think there will be a third time lucky though!

Agreed, if a bit cynical. I’d like to think more and more of us can be “free.”

And on the subject of living on $10,000. That’s been kicked around over the past few years as a happiness threshold after which the law of diminishing returns kicks in.

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticleNew.asp?xfile=/data/opinion/2009/October/opinion_October41.xml&section=opinion

Of course things have changed since the 1950s, but not all for the worse. Yes, you could argue that health care costs have gone up, but back in the 1950s it was cheaper because we died easier (and we didn’t all take 50 prescription drugs either!).

If we truly lived like the 1950s, no cell phones or cable, one car, homemade dinners, vacation at Grandma’s house, 800 sq. ft. homes, most of us could do this and survive just fine. We just don’t find that kind of lifestyle acceptable anymore! My mom was one of six kids in a middle class 1950s home and she never got new clothes or had toys, save maybe a doll. She had to work in the family store for any spending money from age 10. I imagine if I raised a kid like this now it would be considered child abuse!

@George – In order for a financially free person to receive money from his investments, someone has to be bound to provide this money.

“If it was not for the fact that most believe that an education gives them more or better career choices, they would not let themselves be locked into thinking like a professional, that the only way to live would be to administer services for a time-based fee while paying off their student loans.”

This hit me right in the gut. Only $96,000 to go…

[…] here’s the other side of the coin. Omg I’m not sure that I want this to be my philosophy. It’s quite […]

It’s interesting to think about how many people believe what they are told they should want and do. I was having a conversation with a financially strapped friend who has only been able to find p/t work since being fired over 2 years ago. She really needs to cut back on her spending but instead she just puts everything on the credit card. She’s using her IRA to pay off the credit cards now as the interest rate is so high on the cards. Of course she can’t save more as she spends all she earns. But still she won’t get rid of the cell even though she has a landline and lives in NYC; it’s not as if she’s going to get stuck on a dark deserted road somewhere and need to call for help. She says everyone expects you to have a cell so she has to have one. And the cable package, and clothes shopping and meals out etc. She is so totally trapped by what she thinks she is supposed to have, want and do, as dictated by others.

I guess for me I figured out that becoming financially independent was a good thing; was really inspired by “Your Money or Your Life” back in the early 90’s. I just went about it wrong; jettisoned the reasonable paying job too soon without enough savings, to start a farm with a kid in tow. I sort of figured that I’d never be FI enough to not have to work, so to do what I wanted (farming) was a sort of FI as opposed to a cubicle job. But being broke all the time and not having enough money to even go to the dentist takes its toll.

I realize now that I should have waited; kept the condo and the job and saved as much as possible. The condo would have eventually tripled in value, I would have had some real savings and then I could have done what I wanted. Guess I was in a rush to do what I wanted while still young. But it’s hard to know any of this as most everyone around you is just plodding along lock-step (or rather, racing on the hamster wheel day and night). We don’t have many good models for FI out there so it’s hard to know how and what to do. Most people don’t even realize it’s a choice. That’s why blogs and books like yours are helpful; wish I’d had this in the 90’s.