And that is the question that we all must answer. Is it better to let the 100-year-old oak tree stand or build a piece of furniture that may last for centuries? ( Notice, one of the options is not to chop it down for $19.95 chairs… )

@Gypsy – See here http://earlyretirementextreme.com/2009/01/my-hdhp-hsa-and-some-comments-on-health-care.html

@Executioner – Me too. I don’t remember, but I’m sure it was brilliant 😉

@hickchick – Indeed, but going faster by 0.1 knot or going from a batting average of 0.28 to 0.29 does not ruin the environment to the same degree as manufacturing doorknobs.

Two series that are worth watching to me: “Mad Men” and “Prime Suspect.” PS on DVD from Netflix and the library, and MM via iTunes (no ads), and I watch each episode of MM at least twice (starting over for a season) while doing cardio exercise.

Otherwise, I realized by age 13 that TV was a waste of time. I have a tiny one with a digital converter for visuals should anything stunning occur. I did watch PBS one night after I got the converter.

We had cable for a few months. No TV reception without it. I didn’t realize that I would have to pay to watch a slew of ads. There was nothing worthwhile, and I regret the time I spent trying to figure out what the big deal was.

We do watch DVDs on a TV monitor.

@Bill – I ate 90% the same two meals for a couple of years. One gets used to it and so it becomes irrelevant. Anyway, I think people focus on the lowest rungs of the hierarchy of needs to the point of supplying those needs many times over that the top ones, self-actualization, are entirely forgotten. That is, unless self-actualization now consists of redecorating the home and buy a bigger TV and personal growth is the the equivalent of upgrading one’s wardrobe,.. hey wait?! 😀
PS: The fascination with choices seems to be uniquely American. Nowhere else do you find so much choice vis-a-vis more or less the same thing but in different packaging. This is really just the appearance of choice—the choice between red apples and green apples is still… just apples. I am, however, thankful that opting out is a choice that is allowed, if not culturally, then at least legally.

@tracysimplylivinginspain A very normal life strategy is to do what everybody else is doing and have the choice confirmed by others doing the same thing.
Now, if somebody appears to be doing things differently, it invalidates both the specific choice above and the confirmation method. It is similar to when some people discuss, they seek to reach agreement, and when other people talk, they seek to reach the truth. A discussion between one from each group is bound to leave one of the unhappy. In addition, I have observed that the “agreement”-group mostly puts an equivalence with their ideas and their person, so if you say their ideas are bad, they effectively interpret this as you saying they’re a bad person.
So bringing these two together, if I make a different choice, I am effectively making a statement as well.

Yeah, I noticed the “smugness” creep up. People used to call me arrogant or at least it’s been a while since that last happened, so I guess I’m improving. Smug is better than arrogant, no? 😎

I suppose smug is slightly better!

I’ve been thinking a lot lately about why some people react so violently to a ‘different’ way of living. It has also come up on tlblack’s blog The Simple Life in France (found thanks to you). She’s gotten the ‘Loser’ word, no less! No fate worse than being a loser in the U.S….

When you make such an extreme downsize you are crossing the line, in many people’s minds, to a lower social status and that may be the true faux pas, anathema. Sure, you’re rich, in that you don’t have to work if you don’t want to. You could come up with 100,000 in cash quickly if you needed to. You are, however, living like a poor person – in an RV even, egads! No heating. Eating beans and rice. Picking up furniture off the curb, perhaps. You’re highly intellegent, well-educated. Why would you choose to live like – well, like a bum? Not everyone can handle that…

Sometimes the “extreme” life requires a thick skin. My family, all of whom I love dearly, constantly harp on me to get a new car, get new clothes, get cable TV, etc. I no longer try to justify my lifestyle choices. Instead, I laugh all the way to the bank.

And I don’t think calling out the emperor for his new clothes is smugness. I just think most people can’t handle the truth. Remember, they killed Socrates just for asking some penetrating questions.

Meanwhile, the internet has allowed me to find a sufficient number of kindred souls to convince me that I am not some miserly crank. Jacob’s blog is a great focal point for me, and I am grateful he has the courage to share so fully both his theory and his praxis.

@tracysimplylivinginspain – “The fascination with choices, or rather the aggressive defense of one’s choices, does seem to be uniquely American (now that I have lived in three different countries). What is most surprising is how someone else’s choice is interpreted as a direct attack of your choice. Why is that?”

Replace all instances of “choice” in your comment with “freedom” and you may get closer to the problem. I think conflating the two concepts is a big part of American culture. Once we’re blinded to their distinction it becomes much easier to interpret other people’s choices in opposition to our own freedom.

I found this posting really confusing as it seems to be jumping around between different ideas and changing terminology after every other sentence. First you’re talking about productivity and then about innovation and then being old fashioned and then materialism and utility. All are unrelated. Maybe you should try this topic (topics!) again.

You start losing me when the one person plants a tree and the other person complains about it. You don’t explain why the second person is complaining. The second person could obviously do the same if they wanted.

Scott Adams (the Dilbert guy) once said that he can actually draw better than what he demonstrates in the Dilbert comic. But drawing better takes more time and he realized that a better drawn comic will not produce any more revenue. So, he draws the comic just good enough to get the job done.

Is that what you’re trying to say?

So Scott Adams takes no pride in creating a well drawn comic. Some comic producers do and, even though it gains them no extra revenue, they spend more time on their drawing. Is that who the “old-fashioned” person is supposed to represent?

@Bill – Essentially, I am being smug about not committing to the rat race. I have realized that freedom does not come from replacing perfectly functional items with new items or building/buying items that I will never use, like the grooler mentioned above. In the same vein, the important choice is not the one being which items to buy at the mall, it is whether to go to the mall at all. It is not which career to work at for a lifetime. It is whether to spend a lifetime working in the first place. This is post-materialism. I also realize that any activity (perhaps a better word than productivity) directed towards that end is not something to strive for. Suppose instead I found a way to replace my furious activity and get the same results, the same productivity. Would this not be a preferable?

Specifically, I worked hard and instead of blowing my money on superfluous stuff (choices?), I spent it on capital assets and now those assets are producing for me. In a handful of years, I essentially saved (created productive assets as opposed to consumer items) as much as many people spend a lifetime doing. You see the difference? I have done as much as the average person will do in a lifetime of work. I have just done it much faster and with much less waste because I was efficient. Now these assets provide for all my needs. Now, in the question of fairness, should I do more? Need I do more? Yes, indeed if everybody did like I did, there would not be productive assets to build a great variety of door knobs and there would not be pills for hair growth and liposuction, and most people would be riding bicycles instead of driving cars, and so on. Instead of spending all day at work, they would now have a choice every day of what to spend their time on. Now, I have no idea what that would be but at least CO2 emissions would go down, the water would be cleaner (perhaps even drinkable again), and so on. It may be that not everybody could have fun doing science or having other high minded thoughts or that not everybody would like to spend all day playing baseball. Maybe many people do need the direction of a 9-5 office/factory job, which is after all, what they have been trained to perform in [Several have reported a complete loss of purpose in retirement when they’re no longer being told what to do]. So be it, I’m sure something can be found.

Jacob the concept of unlimited productivity.. I loathe it. One sees that you have excess capacity. So why not fill it?
I highly recommend that you (and anyone else) watch Charlie Chaplain’s “Modern Times” , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Times_(film)
It really pokes fun at all the modern industrialized and unlimited productivity.
I am with you with working efficiently, saving capital, and reaping the benefits. I got turned onto this site through my many sites related to simple living, fitness, and finances and you sum all this up here on this site.
I get what you are saying, and you HAVE efficiently saved your money. It’s my intention to check you. You need to emphasize that the extra work that you did, and how hard it was. There is no such thing as a free lunch, is a dying metaphor or cliché way of putting it. I advise(challenge) you to capture that journey and tell about it, to which you have in parts and pieces all over this blog, but in one Holistic Guide.
It’s easy to tout the benefits of doing what you want, being un-materialistic and out of the rat race. It’s almost heaven to say so. Bottom line: There are many un-seen “costs” to retiring early. Don’t fool the fence sitters, especially the ones already in the yard.

I have enjoyed the time you have taken to write back and have a happy thanksgiving.

-Bill

Jacob, Yes, read that, more than twice.. 🙂

I don’t think it captures the degree of difficulty. I also recommend you add pictures to this blog. I.e. Take a picture of the food you ate during those years, and say eat this for as long as you can stand it. Elevate the hardships you endured. Yes, your story has a happy ending, don’t mislead the reader.
Do some name dropping. Show exactly what you did- Within the level of protecting your safety.

I know this goes against your campaign to convince and share with others. I advise that you must be truthful.

Thanks for the link. I’ll make it.

This helps, as I am getting closer to understanding the way you think, more than what you put down on this blog.

I chuckle at the “combat ready”.

If one is a city dweller, walking isn’t the issue and you could be car free. Like yourself, a RV dweller, you just need to place your self near your source of food. I guess We are clever enough not to make those mistakes of depending on a car for work and food. But like you said there are no hardships and you do live life another way.

Back to the title, or topic, instead of an all out debate on this philosphy. You remain not attached you your HiFi system and the rat race of constantly upgrading. Good for you. You are begining to sound very exsistential focusing more on emotions, actions, responsibilities, and thoughts..

Jacob, you might enjoy reading “everything bad is good for you” by Stephen Johnson. His observations on the increasing complexity and quality of TV programming (not all of it by any means) and video games are pretty interesting, and he makes a couple salient points regarding the mental exercise that they now provide, compared to 30 years ago. Don’t get me wrong, I agree that most time spent in front of the telly or gaming screen is time better spent doing something in the physical world, but *some* TV is as intelligently constructed as Shakespeare and *some* video games teach problem-solving skills.

I suppose the thing about technological innovation is that once it had made a simpler life much less work to achieve, it was developed into entertainment, creating ways to make one’s life more complex, making it easier (or even “required”) to spend more money on things we don’t need, (like flat screens, gaming consoles, etc…).

But I think you already said that in your post.

I mean really. If you are so strongly against granite counter tops, why put your money in banks that loan out X times the amount you put in to people taking out helocs to put in granite counter tops.

What you wish to avoid is enabled via your strategy.

Now, if you were living off the land with no savings in dollar denominated assets, you’d have a case. You are the provider of the materialistic system you do not like. And still, you complain. In a sense, the granite counter top buyers are supporting the lifestyle you have chosen.

* I do not own a granite counter top (it’s mid-80s tile).
** I don’t mean to be caustic… just pointing out some facts as I see them.

What if you modified your strategy to work a 40 hour week at a job where you earned only the amount of money that you currently make off your investments.

In this way, you’d be contributing less to the materialistic world (because the bank wouldn’t be able to use the multiplier effect of leverage).

You would earn the amount you need (and little more).

It occurs to me that you serve the materialistic world more than someone who makes very little, is thoughtful about their purchases, but because of meager income, spends every dime they have. They contribute less to the materialistic world than an ERE follower.

Instead of putting your money in banks, you could use one of the many private loan sites (prosper.com and the like) to loan money only to individuals whose need for the money you bless. The banks don’t afford you any right of self-selection. At least somewhere like prosper would let you avoid granite countertop borrowers.

For the past few decades increases in GDP have stopped corresponding in any way to increases in median wages or living standards for the average middle class working American.

This is in large part to factors such as outsourcing and corporate consolidation, but another huge factor is technology growth which allows fewer individual to produce the same amount of output, which in turn allows companies to lay-off workers, which increases unemployment, making employers less competitive, which suppresses wages.

What all this comes down to in modern America is that increased productivity does not actually benefit the American worker at all, it benefits shareholders.
And so the terrible (or hysterical, depending on your perspective) irony is, the employed person who feels it is immoral to drop out of the rat race is using all of his labor to enable you to live off of investments.

Jacob,

Good book and good blog. I have taken away many useful lessons.
But on the subject of health insurance Gypsy has a point. I’m 56 and a high deductible health insurance plan in NH costs over $500 per month. Not acknowledging this fact would amount to putting my head in the sand. Fact of life, in non-competitive markets health insurance costs skyrocket as you get older. Those planning early retirement need to get a feel of how much health insurance will cost as they get older or else they’re in for a rude awakening when the monthly budget exceeds their financial resources.