Good stuff… I need to try some of these tactics.

By the way wrt your passive income, it’s been awhile since you’ve written anything about recent investments. I’ve always wondered what your thought process is like when purchasing a company, from initially discovering a company to the actual purchase. I know you’ve talked about this generically in the past (your basic process for choosing stocks), but how about a detailed analysis of a recent venture?

This is so helpful, and I’d love to hear more about how DW fits in to all of this–does she work out like you too? Have there been specific areas that she’s been more resistant to over the years (I know, the car, the boat)? Has it been easier to come around over the concrete immediate decisions rather than the big picture?

My DH isn’t bad on the big picture, and he likes to see the savings accumulate, but the day to day spending decisions are not where I would like them to be…although, that said, when I look back, there have been major changes over the years!

My DW thinks I’m crazy about simple living. While I’m far more conservative than you are, she says nobody thinks the way I do and that I’m too far out in left field. Her family reinforces her opinion by talking bad about me. For instance, I have shown her the Tumbleweed website, and she actually ended up yelling at me. I like your camping suggestion, but she would never agree to go camping. It’s too “rustic” for her. Do you have any other suggestions for how to get a wife to downsize (even a little)?

@Rosie – I think the long-term changes are what is important. Some areas have moved far. Others have stagnated. The current problem areas in this household are in the working out department. Like many other Americans, DW is slowly on her way to type II diabetes and similar lifestyle problems. Now I am heavily invested in companies that are going to benefit from these problems, but I’d still like that such preventable problems stay outside the family. Maybe one needs to have lived in another country to see that what is considered “average” here is really overweight bordering on obese elsewhere. The way I have dealt with this in the past is to get more and more annoyed until we have one of those long and boring conversations. This results in an exercise program that lasts are couple of weeks. What I’m currently doing is in supplying all the discipline (and nagging) to maintain the exercise program and cut off all damaging food sources from the shopping list. I basically set down an ultimatum. In terms of the financial stuff, the problems is in the implementation. She doesn’t buy much, but when she does she typically pays retail rather than scouting for used, recycled, freecycled or clearance. The right attitude is definitely there now.

@Eric – Well, I would suggest finding some simple living friends and start doing things with them. Maybe the wife can be invited on occasion to get a better idea of the left field. If she’s a normal consumer she probably thinks simple living is about living in squalor. In terms of the house, maybe claim some territory. Say that “you decorate this room” and “I decorate that room”. Then make your room the way you want. I think the kitchen is the command center of the house. If you can claim that (just offer to do all the cooking), it’s easy to get rid of the electric can opener, the ice cream maker, and the three different kinds of blenders. Just say they take up space so you put them in the closet and what does she care anyway since you’re the one doing the cooking. In terms of selling stuff .. wow! Well, one thing you could do is to stop buying new stuff and trade your old stuff away for whatever you need.

@yvie – I try to be a little bit of everything doing whatever works in whatever area is required. Whether carrots or whips or something in between. People may be mature in one area and immature in another. For instance, can adults that run up consumer debt and then declare bankruptcy be considered mature? There are typically two ways to handle this: adult-adult, which works when both are rational, or parent-child interactions, which is the default when adult-adult does not work.

I think once two people are married, they have a responsibility to each other. One of those responsibilities is not to let themselves go and also consider how their actions might affect their partner whether that comes down to health, finances, breaking the law, not sleeping with other people, leaving the toilet seat up, or whatever. After all most actions impinge on the other in some way. Some of these (like the toilet seat are ridiculous) but some of them are potential deal breakers. For instance, I am just not going to be dragged down into a bankruptcy due to my partner’s spending behavior while accepting my partner’s choice as that of a mature person. If that was the case, I’d eventually seek a divorce. Same with the health. In my book, love in not unconditional, and sometimes it needs to be tough.

@yvie – This is why I’m changing the strategy and instead of just demonstrating the problem, I’m following through and helping to fix it. Finances are ultimately secondary to happiness. We have money so we can enjoy life and create opportunities. We have health for the same reason. A bit overweight turns into quite overweight which turns into obese and eventually morbid. It is simply a symptom of the wrong attitude towards physical health just like paying minimum on credit card balances is the wrong attitude towards financial health.

Of course it ultimately comes down to which values are very important to you. The main problem is asymmetry. If one person in the couple has saved while the other has spent, can the former reasonably choose to upgrade their lifestyle if the other is still struggling to pay credit card bills? Or for a vacation, suppose the active person would prefer an “active vacation” and the sedentary would prefer a “sedentary vacation”. Should the former be forced to always pick the latter because the latter is simply incapable of the former?

Hey!

I know I wouldn’t successfully lose weight with my hubby having that attitude…HOWEVER, one of my best friends writes an awesome blog about weight loss/eating healthfully not as self-control, but as self-care…maybe if you could get your wife to follow that shift in thinking, it would be easier for her and you. Just offering some thoughts. If you’re interested the blog is http://www.aprovechar.danandsally.com

Amanda

Jacob,

Weight gain is not necessarily a sign of immaturity. There could be a number of other subtle mechanisms at play.

For example, I was bordering on overweight when I lacked confidence in dealing with people. Over-eating was helping to cope emotionally. And extra weight acted as an excuse to avoid taking opportunities and putting myself into situations I felt uncomfortable with due to insecurity.

When I gained confidence and feeling of security I lost weight and became more active. But to do that, I had to accept myself and have people close to me who accepted me as I was.

If I had a spouse who’d be paying attention to it all the time? I would have NEVER gotten to the place of security in my head that I needed to actually make change. And I know it because my mother, whom I am very close with, acted the same way as you – from pointing out the problem to moving to helping to fix it. Did not work at all! She also did not believe in unconditional love – but she had to learn the hard way to stop pointing that out.

I second the above comment. I am lucky in having a frugal spouse. We have many shared goals. A few relationships with spenders back in my 20s made me realize that I should add frugality to my list of requirements: intelligence, good sense of humor.

After many years, I have to say that my husband tells terrible jokes, so all has not worked out as planned.

Great post!
Loved some of the tactics you suggested. Will def. try.

@Eric
@firefighter jeff

I think one way to have better success with a non-frugal spouse is to highlight efficency/waste rather than deprivation.

For example, lets say your wife wants a designer item. Instead of saying no, concentrate on getting it the least expensive way. Maybe buy a gently used item on ebay. I get $125 shoes I love for $25 this way. Once your spouse sees that it’s not about giving up what they want, but not being wasteful so they can have *more* of what they want, I think they may come around. Then, once frugal habits are established it is difficult to go back to being a spendthrift.

At first my DH was reluctant to go along with the whole money saving idea. So, we started small. Eventually the savings started to snowball and the amount we needed every month was getting less and less. One day when he came home heart broken and absolutely miserable at a job that crushed his soul. I looked him in the eye and said “Well, this is what I’ve been talking about, saving money so that we can live our lives on our own terms and not anyone else’s. Quit. We don’t need the money. We’ll figure something else out.” That was a year ago. Even though we are on one salary we have still managed to save 25% of my take home pay. He just finished a six week training program for a skill that should land him a higher paying job doing something that he considers valuable. But, most importantly, he gets it now. We are on the same page, we are working toward getting the mortgage paid off in the next 2-4 years and then we will focus on saving for early retirement. It’s not impossible to convince a spouse. You just have to show them how it benefits them.

I have a little advice about the lovely wife. Being a wife myself and never having had my husband really put too much stock in my weight (I’ve always been in the low end of my BMI)I was recently before my first child I think 15lbs overweight. He never mentioned it, but I saw a photo of myself and saw my mid section looking a bit big. I decided for myself I wanted to change it. He was supportive, if not worried at times that I wasn’t eating enough, but I healthily took 6 months plus to lose 15lbs. I felt so much better about myself, healthier, and then promptly gained 35lbs in my 9 months with my son 🙂 I again lost it all and then some nursing my son, now am up 10 with second child. All this time my husband has said nothing to me about weight (yes he shouldn’t because I’m pregnant but let me continue) and I am still feeling wonderfully about my body. What may help you, is to NEVER ever mention her weight, ever. Women are strange creatures, if you mention our weight, we believe we are unattractive to you, physically and mentally. We will self destruct more. I’m not saying your not attracted to her, I’m saying she will feel this way. Yet, I have a compromise. Plan dates and activities that are active (even just walking a few miles holding her hand talking about past present and future) if she asks, its about health, never weight. Its not about size, but the future. If she presses you (“You just want to walk because you think I’m FAT!”) take her hands and tell her. “I did not marry you for today, I married you for every day after. No matter what size or shape you are, you have to live to grow old with me. Its not an option. I cannot plan a future without you. I want us to take care of each other, like you’ll have to keep my healthy emotionally, physically and spiritually, I have to do the same for you or I fail you as a husband. I can’t fail if I want to see us grow old.” Also get to the root of the problem. People aren’t over weight just because they eat to much, they over eat or under eat or stress out to the point the body clings to every bit it can due to self preservation. Is she stressed? Have you ever said the words love is not unconditional? That only sounds like abandonment to a woman. Is she eating enough healthy fat? Without healthy fat (butter, cheese, milk, fish, nuts etc) the body will not let go. Plus a woman’s diet should not look the same as a mans. Not in calorie, quantity or even style. I am not trying to attack you but help you as I’m a big reader here and have used a lot of your advice in my own life and its helped. I hope this helps even a little.

Interesting tactics about saving an amount the partner spends. I will try these strategies to see if they work. Thanks for sharing Jacob