With all due respect, I strongly disagree with many aspects of this thought-provoking post. And I don’t blame anyone for skipping over this comment, as it became extremely long. I am a wordy writer, but this is something, even for me.

First, I wonder how you know about so many different people that their lack of knowledge about personal finance was/is rooted in the fact that “they considered such simple knowledge beneath their refined tastes/they consider finance to be somewhat beneath them.” Did each of these people say this to you, or is the conclusion you came up with on your own and attributed to them?

Perhaps it is not so with the people you know, but I know many people who declare their incompetence in a certain area simply because their talents–and as usually naturally follows that, their interests–truly lie elsewhere, and not because they feel they are somehow too good to learn about their areas of weakness. Many people in fact are self conscious or at least not proud of their weaknesses and proclaim their lack of knowledge or skill with a sense of defeat rather than smugness.

If you are certain they really did feel that way because they told you so, and you know that they simply “prefer to focus on more interesting subjects“ why exactly is that so horrible again?

Not everyone is skilled or has proclivities toward (nor can everyone be skilled or have interest in) the same subjects. Simply because you declare personal finance to be a simple (or interesting) subject does not make it so for everyone or make that an absolute, universal fact.

“Simple” and “interesting” are subjective terms. It’s normal to be drawn toward the topics we naturally find most interesting or are good at. In almost every instance, that is simply a case of following our natural tendencies and not of seeing subjects we are less drawn to as somehow inferior or beneath us.

Most people feel the topics and skills they are interested in or skilled at are simple. Obviously what is simple and what isn’t varies based on one’s skills, experience, interests, background, talents, and so on.

If people don’t know personal finance like they know how to put on clothing each morning or make a quick meal that is precisely because it isn’t as simple as putting on a pair of pants or throwing a frozen dinner in a microwave. If it were, so many books, shows, articles, blogs, etc.–many of which include quite detailed and technical how-to and clarifying information–would not exist on the topic and so many wouldn’t make actual technical errors or errors due to lack of knowledge and experience. Yet most of us manage to not put our clothes on backward or set our frozen dinner on fire. Just because pf is important in our society does not mean it is simple.

Just as I’m sure you utilize and hire professionals for certain areas in which you are not skilled or inclined–for ex. I assume you go to drs., lawyers, or similar professional when needing those services–so too do some when it comes to finances. Going to a professional for help is one way of *being* responsible for one’s finances, not one example of *not taking responsibility*. It just happens to not be the path you seem to have chosen in this particular area, but that certainly makes it no less of a responsible or effective approach.

As far as the claim that focus and extraordinary effort are all–or even much of what–it takes to accumulate a six digit net worth, I feel that all one needs to do is look around the world or at history to be reminded of the many ways in which life regularly and habitually intrudes and wreaks havoc upon even the best laid plans, the most thorough and devoted efforts, and the most hard-working–and smart-working–individuals.

Not everyone has the same strengths and interests. I think–rather than attribute a superiority complex (which even if it’s there, is often simply compensating for a sense of inferiority or shame about lack of knowledge or aptitude) or sense of irresponsibility to those who may not share your same strengths and interests–it would be more productive to help others succeed and improve by meeting them where they are, supporting them as they are, respecting their differences, and helping them begin in the ways that feel most comfortable and doable for them. For some that may include hiring professionals; for others it may include learning only the very, very basic first steps of pf approaches only.

But disregarding the many factors that come together to make a subject feel difficult or simple, or interesting or dull, for any of us, and simply assuming that because others do not share your natural tendencies, attractions, and strengths, that they are somehow lacking effort, focus, responsibility, and humility doesn’t seem to do much, I believe, to help those people change or improve or learn.

If anything that type of approach and mindset has the potential to creates yet another divide between people and to further alienate from a given subject/task those who already fear or are uncomfortable with that particular task or subject.

I believe those who excel can help others by making the fields that are easy for them less overwhelming and intimidating for others, and not by condemning the lack of comfort others may have with the subject they find challenging or by critiquing the methods that they do use to at least take some steps in approaching a task that may be very difficult for them.

Professionals can be utilized while still maintaining an eye toward individual needs and goals. And better someone use a professional to do something productive and to start on the journey toward improvement than to do nothing at all. Of course they will have to find checks and balances for their system and not blindly trust one person, but going to a professional can be a very good step for many people.

Not everyone can just pick up a book and teach themselves any and every subject, and I’m sure each of us has many fields that all the reading in the world would not help to familiarize us with to any degree of necessary fluency. Your theory is set on the assumption that everyone has the time, ability, and circumstances required to be able to as you do and have done or as you feel ought to be done, and that is something I believe is simply not so. Nor necessarily believe ought to be so.

Again, this is with all due respect to your beliefs on the topic. We seem to have very different set of beliefs on pf issues–for example I think, contrary to what I read in your intro., that what you earn has a tremendous effect on one’s financial gains, often much more so than spending. You living a poverty level lifestyle for ex. will allow you to keep a lot more money than someone who lives on a lower than poverty level income but spends the same or less than you do. No matter how little that person spends they will be nowhere near your level of savings if you earn a lot more than they do, even if you only saved a small portion of your salary and they saved a large portion of theirs.

Spending affects us of course, but without adequate earnings to save, our ability to save and make financial progress is squelched. However, despite some differences in opinion, I very much appreciate your ability to thoughtfully organize and communicate your views–and many of them are very interesting, I just browsed through your archives–and experiences and to inspire and provoke thought in others. That’s a big part of what good blogging/writing is all about.

I’ve heard many of the same types of comments in my universities. I don’t agree with any of it. If something is worth knowing it’s worth knowing. Math is important and f*** rocks. And I’m no mathematician! I think it’s stupid when humanities types take pride in not knowing technology – like it’s so uncool to know anything about why their airplane can carry them over the ocean etc etc. People just end up rationalizing to themselves their career choices. So many of these “opinions” probably aren’t even their own, anyway.

Jacob,
I think your post is spot-on. I wouldn’t begrudge anyone choosing to live in ignorance of a certain topic or field of study. However, if that ignorance becomes a detriment to their life, I would expect they would shoulder the consequences as personal responsibility…no bellyaching that it was someone else’s fault. I have heard people defiantly tell me that they have no use for algebra and then bring problems to me (as a CPA) that could clearly be solved thru algebra. They’re not happy when I point this out in my solutions.

This is for m,
It’s not about where your strengths and interests lie because financial independence is simple enough that anybody can do this. The issue is most people don’t want to go through the hardship in the beginning and then maintain their progress through discipline. There are various reasons why (excuses), and yes, it helps if you like the subject matter, but this truly is a concept that most people can readily understand. But it has to be backed up with will-power and the ability to see past next week.
And on the issue of alienation it has been my experience that the people who are going to be offended or turned away will be absent from the discussion whatever you say or do.We need to get over the fear of hurting someones feelings when addressing some realities.
Lastly, on the issue of responsibility, much is made on the duty for people like Jacob to meet everybody on their terms, but at what point do we hold individuals accountable for coming out of their learning style or comfort zone? Or for tackling a problem or subject matter that they hate? Again, in my experience, when you don’t require effort on people’s part, their half of the equation, you get nothing in return for your effort.

From what you’re saying, it’s a truthful statement to proclaim that most people find solace in ignorance with regards to financial responsibility. I agree that if you put aside a little time each day to learn a facet of investment opportunities, less people will be out of debt and in the black.

I agree 100% with what you’ve written here. I know full well there’s subject matter snobbery all over the place. It’s root cause is (I believe) the personality a person has bought for themselves. People usually flock into groups with others that have similar interests. Sometimes they flock just to be a part of the flock because they didn’t fit naturally into one. When you adopt a character for yourself (everyone does to a degree–based on their likes and dislikes) you make your own aura. And often the aura serves as a prison.

15 years ago it was not cool to like sci-fi. You’d be banished to the nerd table. Now, it’s cool to know sci-fi–to the point where snobbery exists in certain crowds if you don’t know enough about it. Finance and math weren’t the cool subjects in high school. But someday they may become fashionable to more of a mainstream crowd. It used to be cool to know all the constellations, dance a complicated cotillion, and recite the words of Byron. Nobody cares now.

I grew up watching cowboy westerns and joined a punk rock band in my teens. The character that wraps itself around me knows *nothing* about how to knit a doily or make a lovely cucumber sandwich. 20-year old me would have prided himself on knowing nothing about those subjects at all. More than happy to be 100% ignorant on a subject and insulted if you even mentioned it to me. Modern, evolved me is up to trying or learning things about any subject no matter what my bubble’s initial knee-jerk reaction is.

As usual Jacob, a large dose of common sense from you – great post, again.

You are dead right about people not taking responsibility for their actions.

My wife is a highly stressed doctor earning a good salary.(the usual things you know – patients threatening to sue you, politics with fellow ‘colleagues’etc etc)

(I retired 4 years ago aged 52 on full pension and 6 figure savings,mortgage free house, no debt etc)

A few months ago I made the casual comment “Why are you bothering with all this crap, just retire you don’t need the money or the hassle,” So,she did.

But,she still chases locum jobs and buys crap and is sill stressed out by all the nonsense in modern life.I don’t know why I bothered.

Keep up the good work.

I think sometimes people do not want to learn something, e.g. personal finance, because they have seen it negatively applied elsewhere. I know someone who is not interested in PF because her sibling is stingy, not married because he does not want to share his money with anyone, etc. To her PF would mean that she has to be like her sibling and she does not want that. I have tried telling her that frugality does not mean being stingy but she won’t listen. Instead, she spends as if she has the money and now has never ending credit repayments. I now don’t pay attention to her when she says she is broke.

I don’t know how to text or download ringtones but I do a pretty kick-ass job of controlling my finances and investing. Depends on what your priorities are.