Uh-oh, you’ve hit on a pet peeve of mine: men who argue that it’s impossible to find a woman who is not a ‘big spender.’ Years ago, the husband of a good friend of mine lamented that she spent too much money on appearance (hair, nails, makeup, gym membership etc) and said, “Why can’t she be more like you?!?” Since I don’t do any of these things and we’re good friends he was hoping she could just change or that I could influence her (in 25 years of friendship this has never occurred–he is SOL). I said nothing, but thought, “You don’t date women like me!!!”

Men who can’t find women who are frugal are on some level appear to be attracted to something that coincides with a lack of frugality. If you are only attracted to women who look like TV anchors, for example, expect to find yourself dating someone who spends money on hair, makeup and who knows what else. I’m not judging you, just pointing out a consequence of your chosen action or perspective. (I’ve been mulling over a post on a related topic, maybe next week.) By the way, for years, DH and I had double income but shared expenses and we put a lot of money aside, particularly for the years when my income outpaced his. Our ‘partnership’ has allowed us both to put quite a bit of money aside.

As for the ‘tragedy of the commons,’ I think this is an important problem that can be reduced by the members of the community knowing each other and being accountable to one another.

France is a great example of this. On a large scale, you can see the French taking advantage of say, social programs and saying that they’re justified in abusing the system because ‘everyone else does it.’ In fact, if you can ‘cheat the system’ you are often encouraged to do so and there is no social stigma whatsoever! On the other hand, in an apartment building where there is a common area and you make a mess in it and everyone knows who you are and that you made the mess, you will face more pressure to clean it up. Obviously, you remain free to choose your actions in either case, but the likelihood of facing social pressure or becoming an outcast in a way that can ‘harm’ you is different in each case. Many people consider such consequences when making decisions.

Ok, I’ll stop my novel here. . .

@simple in france – Just wanted to cosign your comment about men and the difficulty of finding a frugal woman.

As for frugality blogs by women, I tend to find that the blogs are mostly written by married women who got into debt when they were single and now have seen the light. So, they were not frugal when they were in the dating pool.

I don’t think tribes are gone for good. Exactly as you indicate, they are the winning strategy when times are tough. It’s just that we (people who live in rich countries) are so affluent, we’ve been temporarily get by in nuclear families (or even as single adults).

Other people are thinking along the same lines. John Robb at Global Guerrillas, for example, has written a good bit about recreating tribal structures.

You might also be interested in my articles Strategies for households with more than one adult and It takes a frugal spouse to make a frugal home. Both are on-topic.

Men that think they must be big spenders to attract women simply don’t understand women. I have found this to be the case in the USA at least. In my experience most women do not shallowly value big spending, glamour, and beauty in and of themselves, they value what their culture tells them these things represent: financial security, social importance, and health. As they grow up they begin to realize that these values are not always correct, but the fact remains that the predominant culture in the USA continues to value these things. In order to get the woman, you must demonstrate that you can provide the things she values. If you can do this without the spending, fame, and fashion you’ll have no trouble. If you cannot, well then you probably didn’t understand a word you just read.

Frugality works when both spouses are on the same page. In fact, I believe marriage works when both spouses agree on how to deal with finances. Both my husband and I are somewhat frugal. We don’t make our own soap but do try to buy things on sale with coupons. We do have our cars but we’ve had them for 10 years & absolutely need them. The children have after school programs like sports; I do have to drive them there and bring them home.
We save 1/3 of our gross income; not 75% of net income like you but we do have a lot of work expenses like malpractice insurance and such. The cost for our home mortgage + property taxes + insurance comes out to $460/person (there are 4 of us in the household). Anyway, if you were to ask my husband, he’d probably tell you I’m more frugal than he is. I don’t wear makeup thus eliminating the need to buy them. I hardly buy any clothes since I have enough to wear. Everyone has different value system. For me, I think as long as one’s living within/below their means, then he/she is doing fine.

Disagree. I am single and live in an apartment so I use a common laundry, common parking lot, common green space, common garbage etc and it is great. You don’t need to be married to share this stuff.

The biggest expense for most people is housing and I do get jealous of the married folks who live in 2 bedroom apartments because these apts cost just a tiny bit more than my 1 bedroom (so effectively their housing costs are halved). What cheers me up though, is that they get pregnant pretty quickly and upgrade to mcmansions and effectively neutralize their advantage.

Oh and coming from a culture where joint families were the norm until very recently, let me assure you that you would be miserable in one. The more people that are in the equation, the less room there is for customizing your lifestyle (economically or otherwise). Individualistic, introverted people are miserable in such settings. You are totally at the mercy of other people’s social agendas. hail columbia!

As a single guy living in Scottsdale, the expectations of too many women is “I need this” and “this” usually refers to Coach, Louis Vitton, Prada, etc. I’m not sure at what point this occurred and I’m sure it is worse here in Scottsdale than many places but it gets pretty annoying quickly. If a woman doesn’t offer to pay for a round of drinks, movie tickets, or something like that in the first few dates, she doesn’t get any more phone calls.

As far as saving money being single, I figure I throw away 50% of all food I buy. The quantities are just too large or in some cases the stores make the larger item cheaper than the smaller item (and I don’t mean on a per unit basis, the total cost). Some things just don’t freeze well and/or I’m too lazy to do so.

Married people who spent too much do so because one or both of them have no self control.

@vga – The funny thing about us frugal people is we really don’t care if you find us interesting.

I’ve learned that no matter how I choose to live my life, some people are going to misunderstand me. Even in my spendthrift days I was probably not considered the most interesting person around, but I’ve always had people who knew me and cared about me for who I was, not the money I spent. I gave up a long time ago on making choices based on what others expect of me and I’m much happier for it.

I can honestly say that spending close to $30 for us to take our son to a movie does not make us more interesting to anyone. And those expensive restaurant meals? I’ve found that I can make most anything my heart desires at home, and I prefer knowing what goes into my food. Did you ever hear of inviting friends over for dinner?

I could go on but I’ll leave it at that.

@vga

Wow. Where to begin?

In regards to #1 Clothes can be purchased on sale and an thrift stores. If you buy quality items they last for a long time. No one needs a gym membership to get in shape. Ever heard of P90X or kettlebells? There are plenty of great exercise programs that get the job done without a gym and a small investment. Personally, I never wear makeup and have no problem attracting the opposite sex.

In regards to #2 For a lot of homebodies they don’t avoid bars, movies or restaurants just because they cost money. Movies can be seen in the comfort of your own home. Restuarant quality food can be eaten at home. Bars are unappealing on many levels.

I can’t speak for other homebodies, but part of the reason I am one is because I think most other people are boring. Maybe they think I’m boring too so I guess it evens out. I like to discuss and learn about various topics. I’m not really into having experiences. I’m most passionate about fitness and health, but I haven’t set foot in a gym for years.

@Mneiae – There is a difference between civilization (a high degree of internal (political and economical, that is, the two social structures we accept) structure) and acting civilized, which is a prerequisite for civilization to survive e.g. being conscientious about interaction with its surroundings (the environment) and the future (the next generations). Our civilization does not act very civilized. For instance, we certainly do not consider the impact of our actions for the next seven generations and frequently we do not consider the impact of our actions beyond the tip of our nose.

@richinaz – Using staples to cook with will allow a greater deal of portion control. Of couse I remember buying 20lbs of potatoes as a single and that generally meant potatoes every other day until they ran out.

@pessimist – Maybe a joint family is not a great structure. The arrangement from my dorm days with 4 people sharing a kitchen or 18 people sharing kitchen and bathroom facilities allowed for personal orientations. One did not have to hang out, but I can definitely see that as a problem in a family.

Still would like to meet a frugal chick. I do know one but she may play for the other team as that’s the only reasonable explanation for her to be able to resist my charm.

Gia,
How would you like to go on a date to the library with me?

Great post, Jacob. Very thought provoking.

Those of you looking for frugal chicks should probably check out your local organizations promoting women in science and math.

Ruth, great link. I love reading about these subjects. Obviously, spending is not the only form of signalling — I should have made that clear. I was just pointing out that it is part of our evolutionary heritage and nobody should be shocked if some (many?) number of people look for them. Maybe not the only signal or otherwise, there would be a lot more cash for sex/babies transactions going on. Instead, you start with the spending signal to see if you have the means to support a family, then the fidelity signal to see if you won’t be out fathering kids with other females, then the kindness/moral signal to see if you will be a good father. The spending signal is probably easiest to detect and hence often is the test that disqualifies males leading to the general feeling that women are just looking for a sugar daddy. (Or the women don’t know when the signal has been answered and keep asking.)

Luckily, pathologically frugal me found my frugal spouse in 1977 and we’ve been frugal ever since. Both need to be somewhat unconventional. My DH said that he liked me because I didn’t expect him to take care of me! And I liked him because he was/is smart and encouraged my frugal ways.

I’m a married lady now but when I was dating, I found that offering (sometimes insisting) to pay for things and/or giving gifts often scared men badly and made them regard me as a threat to their self esteem.

Maybe I should have looked to date men who who were more interested in equal sharing of the costs of going out.

[...] had this topic on my mind for sometime and planned a post for next week, but this article by Jacob at ERE and the following discussion inspired me to push up my ‘deadline.’  [...]