Congrats to P for ending her marriage in a civilized and adult fashion! It can be done. We divorced after 27 years and two kids (one grown, one still in grade school) and are still friends. We did pay a mediator to help us divide things up fairly, but it was still less expensive than if we had gone after each other.

Also, congrats on living your life on your terms! It’s a great feeling. 🙂

I’m just starting to work my way onto the ERE path (although at my age it won’t really be early retirement) and it helps to read of an adult woman making it work. Thanks for the inspiration!

Some things I thought about while writing this

1. Except for college costs (which I don’t think any parent is morally obliged to provide for their children) having kids does not need to be expensive. If you are going to have children anyway, waiting 10 years does not make them cheaper – you might have a harder time giving up your little luxuries. Having kids right out of school never gives you a chance to adjust to having more.

2. Marrying young is risky – although there are no guarantees when you marry older either. In no way do I consider the 20 years with J a waste or a mistake – if I hadn’t gone through them would I have the wisdom to make better choices next time around?

3. I was Canadian, and J was from another world (Brooklyn NY) – neither of us were raised in middle class America. I think that helped us see things from a different perspective and not get sucked into middle class suburban cultural expectations. Some people thought we were nuts and told us, but we ignored them.

EDIT: Maybe those are bad examples b/c I think you need underlying renters + auto insurance for umbrella to apply…still your thoughts are appreciated..

You mentioned you got the house in the divorce. I’m curious as to what your husband got? You said you “worked it out,” but was it equitable? I imagine it would have to be if you were able to do it without attorneys. Sounds very civil.

Great post, P. Well done on being able to make such big changes when you saw they were needed.

It is interesting to read how too much time together was bad for your relationship, rather than a good thing. I secretly wonder if that is why many people will not retire early!

@sunlight

We did not sign out kids up for all sorts of activities – with no car I couldn’t really bring them to the ball fields, etc. Instead we walked a lot, went to the library, went “exploring”, visited neighbors, took the Metro into town to the Smithsonian etc – as 3+ year olds they were used to walking up to 6 miles a day.

When they got older (middle school and high school) they all took up track and cross country through the schools. All 3 were great runners, and 2 made it to States several times. We joked that it was all the walking when they were young.

I do not believe in keeping your kids busy with tons of activities – I think it is better if they learn to amuse themselves. It makes them more creative and resourceful.

As an example, my oldest, K, was fascinated with movie making, and we bought him a video camera when he was eight – he was constantly organizing the neighborhood kids and directing them in movies. The passion stayed with him and he is now in Film school (Ryerson University, Canada).

As far as being wise, who knows? They are still kids and that’s a lot to expect. They all do have a good work ethic. But it’s partly out of necessity. Another example:

The oldest (it always the oldest – the others learned from his example and didn’t make the same mistakes) used up all his college money (tuition and housing had been paid) after 2 months in his freshman year of college.

He called and asked for more. I didn’t get mad, I just said no. He got a job working 30 hours a week at a Tim Horton’s (donuts) in downtown Toronto. His coworkers were immigrants with no other prospects. He wised up fast to the value of an education and the value of that $6 beer (alcohol is very expensive in Canada) that was costing him an hour of work to earn.

From then on he has been totally responsible because he knows we will not bail him out and he needs to manage his own affairs. He has taken responsibility for his own life.

Friends say my mistake was giving him the money in a lump sum – I should have given him an allowance $100/month or something. But what would he have learned then? He needed the space to make a mistake and learn from it.

“I do not believe in keeping your kids busy with tons of activities – I think it is better if they learn to amuse themselves. It makes them more creative and resourceful. “

I completely agree. I wonder how much is lost due to all these activities. It is often said that Asian students focus on rote learning and thus aren’t creative. What are American students being taught when they are taken to cello lessons, soccer practice, … it looks pretty on the resume, but where’s the originality and creativity?

In terms of retirement, this ability to self-entertain is doubly important. There are many people retiring who very soon find out that they don’t know what to do with themselves if they don’t have someone telling them. I guess that’s why retirement homes have “activities”.

Concojones said,

“What I find even more impressive is your website, and the fact you went into this field at age 44. Did you get any help from somebody more experienced?”

This is the secret to kids – they keep us young and on top of technology and culture!

I started taking classes in web design at the University of Pittsburgh in 1998. In 2000 I went back to work at a non-profit where I got to do everything – every time they asked for a volunteer to learn something new I raised my hand. It was an exciting paid education at $25,000/yr.

During this time I went back to school at the Art Institute of Pittsburgh. And I started picking up freelance jobs. After 4 years of night school, full time job, freelance work, and 3 teenagers, something had to go. It was the job – but only after I felt I had sucked out every bit of learning I could get from the Non Profit.

This was a very exciting time for me. I had been a full time Mom for over a decade (my youngest was 10 when I went back to work). The confidence I got from it was incredible.

I didn’t make any money (or not much) for the first 2 years but focused on learning everything I could. I didn’t know anything about running a business and learned through sink or swim and making mistakes – lots of them.

I could do this because of the nest egg – I didn’t need to make a lot of money out of the gate.

I soaked up information from anyone I could – so if you ask “did I get any help form anyone more experienced” I would say yes – anyone who would talk to me!!!!

I found the most interesting thing about your story is that it flys in the face of so many commonly held assumptions. Some of which are:
1. Having children young will keep you broke.
2. You can’t live on one salary in this day and age.
3. Most marriage problems are related to money problems so if you fix that other things will be fine.
4. A divorce will financially devastate you.
5. Early retirement is not possible with all of the above.
Thanks for honest sharing. Lots of reasons to put down all our excuses. Now I need to go check out your website.

Sunlight – have you read the blog “Free Range Kids”? It has given me some good ideas on raising kids. She also wrote a book.

http://freerangekids.wordpress.com/

Your story is really inspiring. I don’t know that I could have gone through that whole process and still remained cordial with my ex. That really is great though!

UPDATE

This post was originally published over a year ago. Some things change… and it might be instructive.

Relations with Ex

Things are not quite so rosy between J and I. I think the great effort to be friends was a heroic but not sustainable – if we were so compatible we would not have gotten divorced. I am not sure what the answer is here, except to say relationships are complicated.

What the Kids Learned

My oldest son graduated from college in May. Although his major was in film, his true love, he was so nervous about his job prospects that he took a well paying job as a salesman at a daily coupon deal company instead. He lasted one month before he realized he could not be happy doing anything except film.

Kevin was unemployed for less than a month before he got a job at an assistant editor at a high end production house in Toronto. This is a great entry level job for his career aspirations. The pay is half of what he made as a salesman.

He can afford this because he has no student debt, continues to live in a student housing situation (4 room-mates in a student ghetto but only $450/month and he is living in downtown Toronto!) and does not own a car.

I think one of the greatest joys of the ERE lifestyle is that my kids are able to pursue their dreams because they know how to live cheaply.

Hey, thanks for the update!

It would be interesting to hear your former husband’s perspective on this, too.

[…] between 25 and 29, and stayed at home while her husband was working with early retirement in mind. You can read the full post here. Thanks to hard work and dedication, her spouse was able to retire at 38. Looks like they had a […]